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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Default kicker postion
From:       "Jamethiel Knorth" <jamethknorth () hotmail ! com>
Date:       2004-06-09 4:07:26
Message-ID: BAY7-F125mu2uDoPM6B00007a2b () hotmail ! com
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>From: James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj@acm.org>
>Reply-To: KDE Usability Project <kde-usability@kde.org>
>To: KDE Usability Project <kde-usability@kde.org>
>Subject: Re: Default kicker postion
>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:58:28 -0700
>
>>Still, you state a big problem. It works *when set to tiny*. It doesn't 
>>work when set to normal. The kicker panel is not designed to be at tiny 
>>size.
>
>Actually, my screen shot is 1024x768 with the kicker and child both set to: 
>"Small".

Small does work better with the system tray. I find it a little large, but 
not nearly as bad as normal.

>>I tried setting it smaller, and immediately noticed that some of the 
>>systray entries were cut-off. The systray doesn't even resize it's icons! 
>>At the least, that has to be fixed before the default panel can be set to 
>>a small size.
>
>Yes: "Tiny" has some problems which is why I use: "Small".
>
>>The problem is, a great many kicker applets are designed to have some 
>>vertical height. Almost all of the applets with visual feedback (system 
>>monitor, mldonkey applet) need the panel to be at least normal height.
>
>This could be an issue and it would mean that you would need to have the 
>bottom child larger than: "Small".

Oh, wait, you want a child panel too? That's not what's being suggested. The 
suggestion is just to move the panel. Splitting its functionality and 
cluttering the screen may introduce other problems.

There are advantages to a child panel, but disadvantages as well. I think it 
would be best not to move to a two-panel method, split top and bottom.

>>I just checked and realized that the clock default actually isn't to have 
>>the date show, so that's not a problem, but a lot of the other tools just 
>>don't work right on a tiny panel.
>
>I need to make a new screen shot.  When I made this, the clock had problems 
>which have now been fixed.
>
>>Unless the panel can also be made to work properly in tiny mode, there is 
>>no way the default can be on the top, as far as I can tell. (Does anyone 
>>use it on top and keep it fairly large?)
>
>As I said, "Small", not "Tiny".

Okay, unless it can be made to work properly in small mode. Many applets 
still do not have enough space. It's not completely broken, but there are 
issues. Also, the buttons for applications are not distinguishable from the 
buttons in the systray. That is a problem in the current system design.

And, besides all that, there are a great many accessibility reasons for the 
very large icons that KDE starts with. Windows gets around this by having 
their Start button be about triple-length and bright green. The KMenu button 
must be square to work with the Kicker panel design.

>>>I however still again a Left To Right remanagment !
>>>It's losing and most peoples are right-handed : read from left to right.
>>
>>
>>Even if it does go to the top, the menu button should definitely be on the 
>>left.
>
>Yes, that is where right handed people find it easier.

Yes, I was agreeing.

>In any case, the: "Small" top Kicker only works well if you also have a 
>child. I use a bottom child, but you could also use a 132 pixel wide side 
>bar if the stuff was adapted to use it:
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~tyrerj/kde/desktop2.png

That only works on large screens.

>This has a bottom bar, but you could also put it at the top.  This is an 
>actual screen shot but note that you need" "kgo" to make the rectangular 
>menu button (and I had to edit some file to get 132 pix wide).  Currently 
>there is no way to put buttons on the large side bar.  Note how nice the 
>TaskBar works here.

Actually, I don't see how well the taskbar works. I see nothing special 
about the taskbar. What I do see is the entire side of the screen being sent 
to an almost unused area.

This clone of the Longhorn design has many, many flaws. At least Longhorn 
added a custom sidebar with a specially designed purpose for it.

>The other one:
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~tyrerj/kde/desktop1.png
>
>is a paste up.

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