'Re: Drag and Drop Improvements (Was: Drag and Drop Up-One-Level)'

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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Drag and Drop Improvements (Was: Drag and Drop Up-One-Level)
From:       Dan Jensen <admin () leinir ! dk>
Date:       2004-05-05 14:46:47
Message-ID: 200405051646.53010.admin () leinir ! dk
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On Wednesday 05 May 2004 12:00, Jamethiel Knorth wrote:
>A whole lot about the dragging and dropping of files

  All of what I saw there seemed very good to me, and well thought through, so 
I will just add my comments in appropriate places :)

>[1]: Types of available toolbar icons

  Bookmark bar should simply be a target in itself (as an add bookmark 
action), imnsho... But, it should also provide feedback to the user (like it 
does now, showing where the bookmark will be created)... Also, in addition to 
what we have not, and in accordance with [5], it would make sense to me to 
have the bookmark folders open and let you drop into place... A bit of work, 
I know, but it would be good for usability as I see it. The same goes for the 
buttons (Up, Back, Forward).
  Otherwise, it looks good :)

>[2]: When targets are not valid

  Looks good to me :)

>[3]: Drag-and-Drop Opening

  It would seem you can already, at least in some cases (Kicker lets you drop 
files onto the Konqueror launcher, as well as opens the quick-browsers (I've 
got a home folder quick-browser button there, and (after a quick test) it 
lets me drop stuff onto anything in the pop-up menu, but doesn't open up 
sub-folders on hovering over them, which seems counter-intuitive to me)).

>[4]: Drop Delays

  I agree that the delays would very possibly become counter-intuitive, 
because timing is not the same for everybody (in fact, very much not the 
same), and we don't need another nit-picky option for this.
  However, it might be possible to make this the same amount of time as the 
current menu opening delay.

>[5]: Pop-Up Menus

  I agree with you here, however on the topic of pop-up menus I would like to 
make my opinion on the whole "Remove the pop-up menu on dropping files" 
discussion. In my experience, users really like this feature (because they 
don't have to worry about "Oh no, what will this thing do to my precious 
document?"). Just like that ;)
  The pop-up menus could be structured as shown in [6].

>[6]: Hovering to navigate

  The MacOS version of this that people are referring to is called Spring 
Loaded Folders and was one of the most requested features to be 
re-implemented into MacOS X when it was removed from x.0 to x.1. So yes, it 
would seem to make sense to implement this. However, in stead of popping up a 
lot of Konqueror windows (even with spatial navigation (comments on [8])), it 
might be possible to open up a menu containing the folders, perhaps like so:

Home icon (hover the same amount as the menu delay [4])
  [Header: /home/leinir]
  Move here
  Copy here
  Link here
  -----
  Documents >
    Move here
    Copy here
    Link here
    ------
    Work >
    Family >
      Move here
      Copy here
      Link here
      -----
      (No sub-folders)
  Downloads >
  Music >
  Pictures >
  public_html >
  -----
  Cancel

  Header is only shown on the top menu. The idea is to make absolutely certain 
the users knows where it is (The link might be a symbolic link).
  There is only reason to have one cancel (anything more would possibly 
confuse the user, and also be counter-intuitive (does it cancel that submenu, 
or the entire action).

>[7]: Lack of Knowledge About Targets

  The tooltips shown on mouse-over would need to be instantaneous, and not 
have the normal delay, to be of use together with [4], [5] and [6].

>[8]: Current Alternatives

  With regards to the sidebar, not everybody likes it (though the Universal 
Sidebar, when more mature, might change that, possibly mixed with Slicker, 
but that's another discussion altogether). Spatial file-browsing (Konqueror 
filebrowsing windows with no sidebar, and with the "Open folders in a new 
window" option turned on) would invalidate the sidebar option completely, and 
thus leave the user with no drag-and-drop options, apart from opening a 
plethora of browsing windows, which is really not the best option. Thus, as 
the sidebar does it properly, yes the toolbar should also do it properly.

>[9]: Related Enhancements

  Using the sidebar as suggested, with the automatic folding out of 
sub-folders would be slightly inconsistent with the pop-up suggestion in [6], 
however an alternative way of doing this would be popping up a window 
containing basically a sidebar tree-view of the filesystem, with the chosen 
folder as root, and then simply doing what would normally happen, giving us 
the following set of actions to do:

1. Drag an item and hover over for example Home
2. A treeview shows up, with Home as root
3. Drop the item on a folder in the treeview, using it as you would any other 
filebrowsing treeview
4. A menu shows up asking you what you wish to do
5. You choose the action
6. The action begins to be performed (giving appropriate feedback)
7. When error dialogs have been shown, or when the transfer has begun, the 
popped up tree-view is hidden again

  Of course, this would give us a problem with cross-platform things that the 
suggestion in [6] does not, which of course gives us the option to decide 
that the small inconsistency that is is really isn't very big.

>[10]: Dragging Other Items

  This is good thinking, and yes, it can wait for now ;) With the other 
things, this is already a very big thing.

>[11]: Adding to Other Applications
>[12]: Cross-Desktop Support

  These two really go together... If we wish for this to be adopted 
universally, i.e. by other applications, it is is vital that a fd.o is aware 
and supportive of this.

>[13]: Good God That was Long

  Indeed, and it's going to get longer ;) Just my € .02 there

- -- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/mindripple/

"A vast swimmer keeps no pets"
 -Seamus Harper, Andromeda 1:14
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