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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: [Bug 77847] Wish: Add 'PDF Format' to 'Save As' and 'Export'
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2004-04-17 23:51:26
Message-ID: 4081C2FE.9030003 () acm ! org
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Dik Takken wrote:
> ------- Additional Comments From d.h.j.takken phys uu nl  2004-04-17 
> 13:40 -------
> 
>> This is the way Linux works. To send a fax or make a PDF, you use the 
>> printer queue system.
> 
> 
> Sorry, this sort of response really pisses me off. If you expect users 
> to take UNIX/Linux the way it is, you should throw away 90% of the KDE.
> 
There are two sides to this question.  The UNIX way of doing things is, in
general, more powerful than using a bloated application like M$ Office.
But, to use that power you must become a 'power user'.  I don't see that
having a GUI and doing things the UNIX way are mutually exclusive.
> 
> You see, the goal of the KDE is to provide an interface into UNIX that 
> is intuitive to humans in stead of computer scientists.

I'm not certain about that.  It could also be to provide a GUI way of doing 
everything without having to use a command line.  This is what it provides 
for me.  I have now gotten used to having the GUI and really notice things 
that are missing such as the fact that I have to resort to the command line 
to GZip a single file.

> Most humans have no idea what PDF and Postscript have to do with 
> printing. 

I would hope that most Linux users quickly learn that Linux uses PostScript 
to print.

> That's why we cannot assume users to know that creating a PDF 
> and printing a document are related in any way.
> 
Really what we are assuming is that users are not going to bother to RTFM. 
  And, perhaps that is a valid assumption.

> Note that I don't say that most computer scientists aren't human but 
> that most humans aren't computer scientists.  :) That's why KDE exists.
> 
I don't think that it is "computer scientists" that are the issue.  It is
people that started using a PC with DOS vs. those that started with 
Windows.  I started using an IBM 1401 with punch cards and it didn't do 
PostScript. :-)

But, in any case.  Some research has determined that that the problem lies
in KPrinter.  It currently does not allow sufficient command line control 
to do this.  So, this is really should be a KPrinter wishlist item.

To be clear about this.  You can't make a PDF from a PS using the command:

kprinter -P "Print to File (PDF)" --nodialog <file>.ps -o <file>.pdf

Note that the "-o" option doesn't exist -- that is the problem.

You *can* execute:

kprinter -P "Print to File (PDF)" --nodialog <file>.ps

and a dialog will pop up asking for an output file name.

Therefore, this feature can't be added as a redundant menu option (or 
shortcut) in KOffice applications because you can't pass an output file 
name to KPrinter. :-(

In any case, it would help to have an alias for these printers so that this:

kprinter -P PDF --nodialog <file>.ps

and this:

kprinter -P PS --nodialog <file>.ps

would work correctly.

So, this is really should be a KPrinter wishlist item too.

So, what are your thoughts about how to implement this.  Note that this 
must consider that the underlying action is still going to be to use the 
printer queue.

I can see two ways:

1.  It can be an additional menu option: "Export PDF" under the: "File" 
(like OO) which would be application specific to the extent that the 
application would have to add the menu item to make the KPrinter call. 
This would also make it possible to add it (directly) to the toolbar like 
OO.  This would be the easiest to implement (as a call to KPrinter that was 
equivalent to the command line above) and would have the advantage of the 
toolbar icon.

2.  It can be added to: "File - Save As".  This has some implementation 
issues since the list of options is still application specific.  The list 
of formats to 'save as' comes from the application.  The application must 
provide a filter for each 'save as' file format.  So, as it currently 
stands, this would not add this to all applications.  Also, this is not on 
the menu so it would not be possible to directly add an icon to the toolbar 
and doing so would violate the KDE UI guidelines.

It would be possible to add default formats to the list in 'save as' so 
that PDF and PS were options for all applications, but this would be 
difficult.

OTOH, the UNIX way of doing things does add this capability to all 
applications that print without any additions to the applications.  This is 
clearly the power of doing things the Linux way.  But, I see nothing wrong 
with implementing #1 to add an extra item to the: "File" menu as a shortcut 
as soon as KPrinter will do it.

--
JRT
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