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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: standardizing modes of text selection
From:       Sébastien_Laoût <sebastien.laout () tuxfamily ! org>
Date:       2004-03-18 13:15:52
Message-ID: 1079615751.2643.31.camel () localhost ! localdomain
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> Click: The old selection is cleared, no text is selected. Dragging extends the 
> new selection by characters.
> 
> Doubleclick: The old selection is cleared, and the current word is selected. 
> Dragging extends the selection word by word.
> 
> Tripleclick: The old selection is cleared, and the current line is selected. 
> Dragging extends the selection line by line.
> 
> Using Shift with any of the above buttons will extend the end of the current 
> selection to the point of the new selection instead of deleting it.

I agree with all this.
This solution is _consistent_, _powerful_, _non obstrusive_ and _do not
disturb actual habits_.
And, greatly noticable, it's much more conveniant than the Microsoft way
: in some Windows applications (not all !) the selection automatically
select by words (as MS IE...) : it's a disgrace. You can return to a
letter by letter selection by moving the cursor on the oposite side of
the selection, but it's too sensible, and word by word behaviour
reappears as soon as we go back on the initial direction :-/
I love your way !!

Because of the need of consistency, must this behaviour be a
freedesktop.org recommendation ?
It's would be good if every DE and applications on Linux or free OSes
act the same. I mostly use KDE but still use Mozilla and Evolution and
few small programs...
I like your proposal and would want to have it everywhere.

> I derived this behaviour from OpenOffice.org, which implements it.

Evolution also provide the Shift to extend.

> - - Konqueror: khtml only supports single and doubleclick, but cannot extend the 
> selection word wise. Tripleclick will select the whole paragraph, not the 
> whole line. Shift works only for single clicks.

I want to precise that we can't drag selected text in Konqueror to
another application :-( We must act with a copy/paste or a selection
paste.
The behaviour must so allow dragging of selected text => then erase
selection and begin a new one on _mouse release_, if no drag was
occured.

> The rationale behind this proposal is consistency, and ease of use. First of 
> all, more clicks mean an advance to the next higher "level": character -> 
> word -> line. Making not only the mode apply on the initiation, but also 
> furthermore on the extension of the selection, contributes further to 
> consistency.

Yes : it's very good.

> Another behaviour that annoys me is the "autoselection" of some of the text 
> widgets, especially since the "selected" text cannot be pasted with the 
> middle mouse button. 
> In fact I'd really prefer the "autoselection" could be disabled in some way,
> since its inconsistency. 

I agree !
It's a pain and useless !!!!!!
For exemple, I cop a text that interest me.
I want to keep it... but where.
So I quickly create a text file on the desktop. But a dialog appears and
"Text file" is selected. Then copied to selection :(
It's a useless information, and I must re-copie my text to paste it in
the new file. This behaviour is not expected at all and pollue the
clipboard/selection.
However, I expect text to be autoselected because this default name is
not descriptive : I want to replace it. In OpenOffice.org, try to rename
a page in the Presenter : name willn't be selected : it's a very pain,
by experience !!!
So autoselect must still, but used more carfully and clever.
But auto-copie to selection is a pain.
But consistent :-/
Or a solution would be to not copie selection if selection has been done
by the program/toolkit, and not by the user with mouse or keyboard !!

Well, a last subject is selecting by words.
It's the same problem as Shift+Ctrl+directionnal_keys.
e.g. text "Hello worls, how| are you ?" (| is the cursor).
Ctrl+Shift+right must select " are you" or " are you " ???
For consitency we must decide which space is included : the one at
right, the one at left... or include it if the oposite side hasn't
spaced included....?
e.g. :
- "Hello worls, how| are you ?" Right will select " are"
- But left will select " how" (this time, include the space à left
because user hasn't taken one on right).
I think it's a more expectable way because if we insert a text on
midddle of another text, we just want ONE space.
I haven't analysed the currend behaviour but it seem to depend of the
selection direction, or it's random... Not clear.

Wao !! "Selection" is a vast subject :-)
Would be good if we port back this to freedesktop.org after thinked
about.

My 2 cents.

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