> On February 18, 2004 06:35, Jorge Adriano Aires wrote:
> > Many linux newbies get their help online on irc or forums. Its no
> > surprise that most of the times help comes in the form of shell commands.
> > (To help
>
> remember that we're not removing konsole from kde. it's still easy to get
> at, just not always on their panel. if these folks need to get help in the
> form of shell commands often enough to justify a panel entry, we're failing

No, not really, from my email:
"(To help someone using gui you'll need to know how to do it with his version 
of his desktop env, possibly with distro specific modifications or even using 
distro specific tools. Also sometimes it's much more simple to type a few 
commands for them to paste the terminal. You might also want them to collect 
info on the konsole for you to check even if they don't understand it.)"

Just try observing it, or ask for help yourself...

Test1: (#linuxhelp)
<LinNewbie> hello, I'm using Mandrake 9.2 and KDE. I want to install amule. I 
already downloaded the rpms from their site. How do I install them now?
<sethk> LinNewbie, I don't use mandrake, but assuming rpm on mandrake runs 
like rpm on red hat, do:  rpm --install thing.rpm

Teste2: (#mandrake)
<LinNewbie> hello, I'm using Mandrake 9.2 and KDE. I want to install amule. I 
already downloaded the rpms from their site. How do I install them now?
<Hostile> change directory into where the RPMS are...in the terminal, then su 
to root and type: urpmi <rpmnamehere>

Test3: (#mandrake)
<LinNewbie> How can I check the free space in my HD?
<Hostile> LinNewbie type df
<moonie> LinNewbie: df -h

Test4: (#SuSE)
<LinNewbie> Hello, newbie here. I'm using SuSE 8.2 and KDE. How can I check 
the free space in my HD?
phalanx> LinNewbie: df -hT
<phalanx> LinNewbie: in a terminal of course

Test5: (#KDE)
(Ficticious nicknames!!) 
Sorry about that! :) 

<LinNewbie> Hello, newbie here using Mandrake and KDE. I want to install a 
window decoration I saw in KDE-Look. I downloaded a Mandrake rpm. What do I 
do now?
<user1> you should install the rpm and it should show in KControl
<user2> LinNewbie: Open a terminal and type "urpmi <filename>"
<user1> as root
<user2> LinNewbie: That is, "su -c "urpmi <filename>""
<user1> su -c 'urpmi rpm_name'

> speaking of IRC, it's pretty easy to find me there most days .... #kde and
> #kde-devel if anyone's interested in discussing things in that medium.
Ok, thanks. (Think you're there even, but this was a just a quick experiment, 
to much work to do :-/).

> =) there are a lot of standard *NIX features, and a lot of those really
> suck. KDE has created a lot of new UNIX traditions, like a coherent GUI. so
> some UNIX traditions are great, but inertia is not a valid reason for not
> disturbing any of them.

Agree. Keeping it *if* possible is a good thing. 
So all I'm saying is that it should be considered in the "equation" too.

> > Then there are other things we should think about. Even if a minority is
> > it asking to much for this amount of users (we can't just ignore
> > minorities). And how much will this "frustrate some users"/"benifit
> > others"? Is the ratio worth it? Having a very accessible terminal by
> > default may weight more when chosing a desktop for tech users than it
> > will, for non-tech users, not having konsole in kicker.
>
> so the question is: how accessible is the terminal, and how often do people
> use it? the latter we have a good handle on, the former seems to be open.

Yeap, guess it is at least important to do some usability tests on the former.
J.A.

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