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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: simpler UI for konqy
From:       "Carlos Leonhard Woelz" <carloswoelz () imap-mail ! com>
Date:       2004-01-08 14:54:27
Message-ID: 20040108145427.0D77245411 () server1 ! messagingengine ! com
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On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:32:09 +0100, "Leo Savernik" <l.savernik@aon.at>
said:
> Am Mittwoch, 7. Januar 2004 22:38 schrieb Carlos Leonhard Woelz:
> [...]
> > One possibility is to add a "real" navigation bar for konqueror in web
> > browsing mode, as Mozilla
> > does. See screenshot in bug http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70506.
> > That would be the ideal solution, with no confusion
> > with "trail" left and right
> > buttons that currently stand together with the "up" navigation button. It
> [...]
> 
> You're overlooking that the meaning of the navigation bar's up button
> (link 
> rel=up) is a different one from the main bar up button (one directory
> up).

No. I am proposing something else. See below.

>As 
> 99.9999% of sites don't implement it, the navigation bar's up button's 
> functionality would come close to that of non-existance.

If no rel up exist, the current behavior could be a fall back.

You see, this is not a easy subject. This is complicated in many ways.

First, let me say that Alexander Neundorf raised a very good point,
saying the up button currently has no substitute with the exception of
the alt + up or the menu. I don't have KDE in front of me right now to
test it, but if this is true, I don't think we could remove the up button
for the web browser view profile for KDE 3.2, even if:

- You usually dont browse files when you fire up the web browser.
- When you do browse files, you usually browse down, so the back button
is the up button
- You will still have the option to use the file manager profile to
browse files and the web, with the up button.
- The up button does not present consistent results when browsing the
web. Also, its funcionality is provided by the web site (in usually more
consistent way). And this is about the web browser.
Someone could think these reasons are enough. I don't. To remove the up
button, the file list should include at least the ".." If it does, than
we *think* about removing. (Maybe for 3.3?)

What I am saying is the up button has much more in common with the
navigation buttons that with the left and right buttons. It should have
*at least* (for 3.2) a different icon type. (This one could be the same
of the navigation ones). I am sure you can find further confusion with
navigation buttons and trail buttons between other KDE apps. The file
dialog has trail buttons. Kate has navigation left and right (they go
from one file to the next). The icons ate the same! Open Kate with the
filedialog tab and see what I mean.  

And the navigation bar could be used to browse directories, even when
there is no rel up, down, left and right. It could merge in these cases.
This *could* be a solution, (I do not claim it is a solution, it is only
something to think about). It would be an original solution.

As a side note, since this has little to do with the above discussion, I
don't think we are talking about removing funcionality. We are talking
about _adding_ a more specialized web browser. The web browser as is
today is essencialy the same application as the file manager.
-- 
  Carlos Leonhard Woelz
  carloswoelz@imap-mail.com

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different…
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