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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Toolbars
From:       Ingo =?iso-8859-1?q?Kl=F6cker?= <kloecker () kde ! org>
Date:       2003-11-09 23:34:30
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On Sunday 09 November 2003 23:52, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Sunday 09 November 2003 12:45, Henrique Pinto wrote:
> > I've just noticed that
> > http://kde.ground.cz/tiki-index.php?page=Toolbar+Review
>
> i agree with just about everything there, except the "Text Aside
> Icons" bit... i'm very concerned that this would make KDE much more
> cluttered looking and much harder to use on smaller screens... this
> is also wasted space once the user learns the basic icons (e.g.
> print) and most users won't know how to change that default...
>
> otherwise, re: the clipboard icons: yes.. they should be removed from
> the ui_standards.rc file... there ought to be, IMHO, separate
> ui_standards.rc files for different types of apps, actually... for
> document centric editting apps, the clipboard icons should probably
> be there...
>
> the undo/redo icons should also be removed. the arrows are bit too
> generic to be on a toolbar IMHO, and even less useful than the
> clipboard actions.
>
> i also support the concept of removing the Help, Configure and Quit
> toolbar icons from wherever they appear...
>
> i actually have an email sitting in my drafts folder for a post-3.2
> mailing that covers many of these issues; i'd like to see us reduce
> toolbar icons by 30% or more in KDE ++(3.2).
>
> looking at kmail's composer window, for instance, removing Print (how
> often does one print from the composer window?), undo/redo, New
> Composer gives us 10 icons, down from 14. that's a 28.5% improvement
> right there without even breaking a sweat =)
>
> i'd probably argue for removing the Automatic Spellcheck button. and
> the Sign button. those are probably items people either use 99% of
> the time, or don't use at all. that would bring the count down to 8,
> and we're approaching 50%.
>
> the address book icon could likely be removed as well since what one
> most likely wants is to add addresses to an email... if they wish to
> just consult the addressbook, they can open it up separately. that
> would result in just 7 icons.
>
> as a minor niggle, Attach should probably be next to the Queue button
> since it's likely the next most often used icon.
>
> kmail's main window is a lot more difficult, though the configure
> icon should almost certainly be removed, ditto with the Delete button
> ... the other 12 icons are defensible though. there should be a
> separator between the Print and Check Mail buttons. and Next/Prev msg
> should probably move to be between the mail check buttons and the
> trash button.. why? because one checks mail, reads through it,
> occasionally deleting or replying.
>
> the resulting clean up and reduction is DRAMATIC. try it. patches
> attached.
>
> kmail devels: ok to commit?

Did you not bump the version number of the rc files for a specific 
reason?

Apart from that you have green light for kmmainwin.rc although I wonder 
why you didn't remove the address book icon from the main window 
toolbar.

kmcomposer.rc: What I don't understand is why you want to remove the 
sign icon but not the encrypt icon from the toolbar. I guess because 
IYHO people normally don't disable signing once they've enabled it. 
Still I think signing and encryption should both be visible. After all 
the signing icon not only serves as action to dis-/enable signing but 
also as indicator that signing is enabled. Furthermore signing and 
encryption definitely complement one another. It would IMHO be odd if 
one of the two actions was missing. I'm okay with the other changes.

One thing I don't like about toolbar changes in general is that the 
changes will always be forced on all users and not only on new users 
(provided the version number of the rc file is increased). Especially 
for users who don't know how to re-add icons they've got used to this 
will be a PITA.

Regards,
Ingo

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