[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KFileDialog toolbar
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () olympusproject ! org>
Date:       2002-06-29 23:06:48
[Download RAW message or body]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 29 June 2002 07:51, Troels Tolstrup wrote:
> 10, if putting sorting back under the view icon, which is where i think
> it belongs after thinking about it. This is the same ammount of icons
> as we previously have.

and that's the problem: there are too many widgets on the top level of that 
dialog with too little structure. maintaining the status quo maintains the 
brokenness in at least one aspect.

> I dont agree, but i doubt we ever will on that one :) I am very much for
> disabling everything that doesnt make sense in a given situation in
> order to keep each usecase as simple as possible.

changing simplicity is more complex and less learnable than static complexity, 
especially when the rules for the changes are non-obvious.

> True, but there are some things not everyone have to learn. As you
> probably know by now :) i think delete is one of them. I think it just
> adds noise. And as you said yourself somewhere, the dialogs toolbar is
> quite crowded, and i dont think the solution is just to throw
> everything into a menu, at least not one that looks like a toolbar
> button :)

there are toolbar bar buttons with menus all over kde. this is not a unique 
situation, nor even a deviation from the norm. instead it is compact and 
doesn't introduce a menu in a dialog (and we'd still need the toolbar for 
quick access to home, back, etc)

> While it is true about people and icons, i think your solution is wrong.
> You are using the toolbar as a menu bar, why not make it one then?

because we'd still need a toolbar, because it is a dialog not a main window, 
because it should remain as compact as possible, because a menu bar would 
only increase the noise in the dialog ....

> While i agree that in my solution i still have menus, i at least think
> they are narrowed down so much that you wont shock users. I personally
> was very surprised to find so many things under the gear icon.

surprise is irrelevant. how does splitting it up and creating more division 
points in the dialog help learnability or memorability?

> switch you back to short view" If noone can think of a better way to
> make this scenario much less confusing, then i really think the
> separate directories option should go away. Yes i know throwing useful

you're throwing this out of proportion. i don't think it is nearly as horrid 
as you purport, the power and relative elgance of the file dialog is one of 
kde's shining points. we don't need to start stripping it down to its pieces. 
most people i've watched using it either don't ever modify it from the 
default or only start messing around w/it if they are power users.

feel free to do a study showing otherwise.

> > yes, in that sense the detailed view is much better and perhaps
> > should be the default.
>
> I think fixing the scrolling would be a better solution as setting the
> detailed view as default only hide the problem.

are you going to fix it, or even understand what is invovled in doing that?

> > wish list item, not usability.
>
> I think it is usability as it then resembles konquerors standard view,

no. it is NOT usability. it does NOT make it more or less usable, it ADDS a 
feature. remember, as Robert just recently reminded us:

 Learnability, Efficiency, Memorability, Errors, and Satisfaction

- --
Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler"
    - Albert Einstein
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9Hj2I1rcusafx20MRAsTpAKCwuGh1sNPdyoGYWPv0o/fbeLHEOACgoXTa
RMWH3exqeB4jBGjvOS7+mmY=
=itPK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
kde-usability mailing list
kde-usability@mail.kde.org
http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]