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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: K Menu layout idea
From:       "Eric Ellsworth" <whalesuit () softhome ! net>
Date:       2002-05-31 17:12:57
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Glad to hear a critical review - it's helpful to have some hard questions
asked...

> > what seems more natural to others on the list: being asked
> > immediately after installing or immediately after running?
>
> Say you install a new irc client and answer the questions a bit too
> fast, wouldnt you get upset if you suddenly couldnt find your old irc
> client anymore? I sure would.

These are excellent points, and well worth thinking about.  As it stands in
Linux, at least, it's pretty hard to install programs without knowing what
you're doing.  But it would indeed be pretty aggravating for a newbie who
uses my computer if I installed a new IRC client which displaced their old
one.  So I'd say keep the programs as they are until the user decides to
change them.  My experience is that newbies tend to change programs very
slowly, after they've had some time to discover what they like and don't
like, or someone has told them they can do something differently.
This layout provides a nice slow way to start adding and changing programs.
Of course I am the author, so I'm a wee little bit biaed :).
Your email does make me think that most power users will immediately turn it
off (as I did with that utterly aggravating Windows XP menu).  It also
raised a couple questions, which we'll have to deal with whether or not we
use Intellimenus (shudder):
What should happen when a system administrator installs software which all
users can use?
What about when software is removed?

> Besides, i don't think the user should really be bothered with things
> that should be automatic.
This is exactly the problem - nobody knows what should be automatic.
Reminds me of the loong debates about user levels here.

> It should not be hard for the kmenu to figure out which programs are
> actually used and then hide the ones that aren't. (it might be a
> problem for programs started in other ways, but im sure there can be
> made a reasonable work around)
>
> I hated it at first, but i eventually found myself using it. I have put
> up some screenshots on http://www.tolstrup.org/kde/xpmenu.html
> in case some of you havent seen it before.

Intellimenus have been around since Office 2000  - that's two years I've
been hating them. ;-)

Seriously, I don't think it's a very good answer.  In my experiences,
newbies launch programs very mechanically at first, often to the point of
consulting written instructions on how to do it, like Click "Start", then
find Programs, then Click Internet Explorer.  With Intellimenus, things move
around an awful lot.  It's like driving your car on the highway for an hour
and finding that the gearshift has retracted itself so other things show
more clearly.
Certainly the number of programs available to them at the outset should be
limited - the question is how.

> The first menu contains a list of most used programs, as well as a few
> fixed programs like a web browser and mail client, and other things
> that the user should find, like help, control panel, etc.

Sounds distinctly like the Recent Applications section the KMenu....

> As much as i hate to admit it, i actually think microsoft did something
> right with the new start menu style in win xp.

Microsoft certainly attempted to deal with a problem that needs to be
addressed.  I think their solution is inelegant, but it's mostly an
improvement.


> And the final option that you can turn on for their start menu is that
> it can highlight new entries.
I have not seen that - it sounds interesting.  I'll definitely play with it.

Cheers,

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