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List:       kde-promo
Subject:    Re: [kde-promo] 4.8 release announcement
From:       Anne Wilson <annew () kde ! org>
Date:       2011-12-25 11:01:39
Message-ID: 4EF70293.5060807 () kde ! org
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On 12/23/2011 08:42 PM, Carl Symons wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Anne Wilson <annew@kde.org>
> wrote:
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> > 
> > On 12/23/2011 04:19 PM, Carl Symons wrote:
> > > I'm almost to the point of recommending that some kinds of 
> > > comments just get deleted. "That's fine that it runs faster.
> > > When are those young, good-for-nothings gonna fix my bug? Fire
> > > promo, get more developers." or (real comment)... "new and
> > > fancy view" is very good stuff but what about idiotic random
> > > crashes of everything on signal 11?...I see no purpose is such
> > > comments.
> > 
> > Easy for promo guys to say.  What do you say to those who filed
> > bug reports months and months ago, have seen no action, and not
> > even been asked for more information?  No wonder people are
> > frustrated.  This happens all too often.
> > 
> > Anne
> 
> Well maybe we should have an outlet for that sort of feedback
> instead of having people rage and insult pointlessly on Dot
> articles. On several occasions, I have researched impolite, vague
> "how about my bug" comments, only to find that there has been
> feedback on the bug or other resolution.
> 
> I may have misstated my experience with comments. I read every 
> comment...if only by RSS. Seriously, many are vague and insulting, 
> nothing more than troll comments intended to stir people up and
> bring KDE down. Those are the comments I'm referring to. Comments
> in which someone writes, "I've been using KDE since version 1. I
> tried version 4 when it came out and (*(*^^* (&(^(* ^^$^^%. I
> switched to OtherOS. And I'm never coming back. Why don't you do
> better?" What do we say to that person?
> 
Exactly what we do say, when it occurs on the Forum.  We point them to
the CoC.  We point out to them that if it was said to them, they
probably wouldn't cooperate either.  If they persist, we ban them.

> So the question may be "What should be said to those people?" And
> it should be done in a way that moves things forward. I'm all for
> finding a productive way to deal with people who sincerely want to
> participate in the community.
> 
+100

> I--and several other people--have recommended that complainers do 
> something to make the situation better. Point them to
> KDE.GetInvolved. Quite often, the response is either "So now
> there's rules that I can't complain." or "I'm not a coder. And you
> guys always tell me that I have to fix my own problems."
> 
Sorry, but it's entirely unrealistic to expect everyone to have the
time or ability to do more than write a bug report - even that is a
bigger and more stressful job than it should be.

> Somewhere in Psychology Land, there has arisen this idea that
> people need to let it out. To vent. Well, I don't believe that the
> KDE Forums and News sites have a responsibility to provide this
> service.
> 
> So I'd be completely in favor of a communication channel for people
> as you describe. I don't know what it is. * Maybe a bug
> ombudsperson or group. Someplace where frustrated users can be
> heard by someone who knows how to navigate KDE. * Maybe an open bug
> assignment system
> 
There are a few very dedicated people who try to deal with problems on
the Forum.  Some are developers, some sysadmins.  They do an excellent
job as far as they can, but frankly we can't always get the answers we
need from the developers to deal with things better.

> I'm not optimistic.
> 
Too many people say "users are horrible - why don't they just go away!"

> Now John Stanley (comment #82) is trying to resolve things... Could
> everyone seeing 'ghost' taskbar entries report the version of Qt 
> and X they are using ? (eg, use X -version, and qmake -v).
> 
qmake -v
bash: qmake: command not found...
Similar command is: 'make'

And you expect them to know what to do next?

> 
> Is this the typical frustrated user we should spend time and energy
> on? Not me.
> 
Then think of the frustrated user who is actually trying to get things
done and can't because there is a problem and no-one makes time to
find out why.  Problems are complicated, yes, and time-consuming, but
rarely experienced by a single user.  That makes them important.

> I agree, Anne. We should find some way for sincere frustrated users
> to communicate with us. I'm not optimistic that the current methods
> are effective at this...although they are quite effective in other
> ways.
> 
I am saddened at the loss of confidence shown by so many people.  It's
not the software, either - most people know that thousands of lines of
code are inevitably going to contain some unexpected issues.  Until
there is a concensus that users matter enough to make it worth
interacting, it's not going to improve.  A few people try hard.  If
only the rest would follow....

Anne
- -- 
Need KDE help? Try
http://userbase.kde.org or
http://forum.kde.org
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