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List: kde-promo
Subject: Re: [kde-promo] KDE & itsme
From: Giovanni Martinelli <giovanni.martinelli () itsme ! it>
Date: 2010-02-22 13:33:23
Message-ID: f855c65d1002220533s6834876an78eac06abbfb85e1 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi Jos,
I guess the guys missed the appointment due to flight schedule... not sure
if any other contacts there.
We'll be back to you on kde sometime in the near future...
Ciao
G
2010/2/18 Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet@gmail.com>
> Did you guys manage to find each other and discuss a few things? With
> the latest release of the KDE libraries Nepomuk has been deemed ready
> for public consumption after significant improvements. It might be
> worth evaluating it once again...
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Giovanni Martinelli
> <giovanni.martinelli@itsme.it> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > sorry for not replying first... mail was lost in my backlog
> >
> > There will be few people from Itsme there (Bob, Fabio, Lorenzo & Michel=
e)
> so
> > good if you know each other!
> >
> > In term of Itsme project we are know putting together some of our
> building
> > blocks and at FOSDEM you will see one of them. From a technical
> perspective
> > we are taking several pieces around that actually fit with our needs: o=
ur
> > GUI will be Qt based and will probably re-use some KDE as basis, while
> for
> > the part you will see sit on top of tracker.
> >
> > So yes, would be nice for us to talk about future cooperation/synergy
> but
> > would be perfect for us to postpone the discussion for a month or so. =
We
> > are now in a transitional phase in term of internal organization so
> better
> > if we can postpone a bit.
> >
> > Would it still be ok for you? We can probably schedule a conf call for
> > sometime beginning of March...
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Giovanni
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/2/1 St=C3=A9phane Lauri=C3=A8re <slauriere@mandriva.com>
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> As a follow-up, just in case you don't know about it, Sebastian will
> >> give a talk on the current status and the future of Nepomuk in the
> >> CrossDesktop room at the FOSDEM next Sunday [1]. That'd be great to se=
e
> >> some ItsMe contributors there for discussing any possible future
> >> synergies between the two projects.
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/xd_nepomuk
> >>
> >> Hoping to see you in Brussels,
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> St=C3=A9phane Lauri=C4=8Dre, in charge of semantic and collaborative t=
echnologies
> >> at Mandriva
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Vincenzo Di Massa
> >>> <vincenzo.dimassa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I CC Nico Sica, our PR person, and Giovanni Martinelli, our
> developement
> >>>> leader, so that KDE-promo has the contacts of the
> >>>> persons in the "control room".
> >>>>
> >>>> Then I CC Michele Tameni our "worst enemy" Gnome fanboy and itsme
> >>>> developer :-)
> >>>
> >>> Hi all!
> >>>
> >>>> Btw, it is not itsme talking to KDE here, it is Vincenzo speaking.
> Only
> >>>> Giovanni and Nico can speak for itsme.
> >>>>
> >>>> I answer inline ...
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Jos Poortvliet
> >>>> <jospoortvliet@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe it's worth an interview or you guys can host a meeting or
> >>>>> something sometime, that's a neath way of getting closer to the
> >>>>> KDE community.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nico, Giovanni: what about a meeting or hosting? Even skype call
> >>>> could be a nice start point.
> >>>
> >>> Depending on what and how much you do with KDE technology a story on
> the
> >>> dot might be possible. That's quite a high-profile site with many
> >>> other news sites picking it up.
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>>
> >>>> You know the effect that the 4.0 release had on Gtk/Gnome people...
> >>>> we are not there anymore, but it still hurts sometimes. (I'm not
> >>>> blaming the 4.0 release, but we must admit it gave new energies to
> >>>> so many trolls). Maybe talking with KDE people who are good at
> >>>> communicating it could emerge how much KDE technologies shine today
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> Well, the 4.0 release has hurt some users (due to distributions
> shipping
> >>> it despite our discouragement), but since then our developer
> >>> force has doubled. For developers the 4.0 release was great - a
> >>> framework which is technically ahead of whatever MS and Apple can thr=
ow
> at
> >>> us.
> >>>
> >>>> Well, lets me "patch" this part of my previous email: we studied
> >>>> and internally documented many KDE technologies (plamsa, akonadi,
> >>>> nepomuk, soprano, strigi, -virtuoso-, and others I can't remember
> >>>> right now)... we had meetings where everyone else had to
> >>>> listen/learn about those pieces of software. Then we decided to
> >>>> start using soprano+sesame2... I was involved in the implementation
> >>>> of a basic backend for soprano then moved back to GUI stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> Look at the following slides (particularly slide 82) for a
> >>>> description of what role soprano played
> >>>> http://www.slideshare.net/itsmesrl/itsme-lezione-usi-lugano
> >>>
> >>> Interesting.
> >>>
> >>>> Since then we had problems with soprano and a guy in our team
> >>>> started experimenting with tracker. He immediately felt better with
> >>>> tracker (he is a Gtk/Gnome kind of person :-P), and the whole team
> >>>> was convinced that using tracker + DIY (do it yourself) would be
> >>>> better than trying to fix soprano (wich because of sesame was
> >>>> really feature missing at the time). Since then they migrated
> >>>> Guglielmo (the itsme equivalent of nepomuk-kde) and AVFS (will have
> >>>> a new name shortly, basically it is a fuse overlay over the RDF
> >>>> storage, sort of like KIO::nepomuk) to tracker.
> >>>
> >>> Well, that is unfortunate as it is my understanding from Sebastian
> >>> Trueg's website that the new virtuosa backend for Soprano kind'a solv=
es
> the
> >>> problems it has... http://trueg.wordpress.com/
> >>>
> >>>> Our initial Guglielmo code will hopefully be released as
> >>>> open-source in a month or so.
> >>>>
> >>>> So they know what the technologies do, and they tried to use
> >>>> them... Where I wrote "our developers not understanding the benefit
> >>>> of the Nepomuk integration with the rest of KDE products" please
> >>>> read "our developers not evaluating the benefits of the Nepomuk
> >>>> integration with the other KDE technologies more than the efforts
> >>>> needed to fix Nepomuk/Soprano".
> >>>>
> >>>> In my opinion what my team is not "understanding" is that the
> >>>> flexibility and the tight integration of KDE technologies is really
> >>>> huge compared to the cost of "fixing it when it does not work for
> >>>> your needs".
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I guess that's something really worth communicating. It takes a
> >>> while to get the infrastructure up and running but once you do you
> >>> can get features others spend months on in a couple of hours.
> >>>
> >>>>> Tracker is really not flexible enough for what you want to do, as
> >>>>> far as I can tell.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have the same impression, but I guess that experimenting both
> tracker
> >>>> and soprano is added value to itsme and KDE and Gnome :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe we could write a post about the switch and its reasons.
> >>>
> >>> That would be interesting - if anyone on your team could blog about
> that,
> >>> I can link to it from planet.kde.org. Or even more interesting,
> >>> talk about it with Sebastian ;-)
> >>>
> >>>>> How about we get a Nepomuk person to your company to help you guys
> out?
> >>>>
> >>>> I would love to meet people from the Nepomuk team (we contacted
> >>>> Sebastian Trueg while working on soprano and also submitted some
> patches)
> >>>
> >>> Cool. I guess you contacted developers using IRC or mailinglists or
> >>> personal mail? This works best when it comes to getting answers ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Of course when it comes to making decisions on technology there are a
> >>> couple of companies in the KDE ecosystem who can help with that. For
> >>> example KDAB, BasysKom, KO GmbH and Collabora.
> >>>
> >>> To get down to business:
> >>>
> >>> - I would love to hear a bit more about your usage of KDE technologie=
s,
> >>> that might lead to a dot story. We can take it from there and see if
> there
> >>> are more ways to cooperate in the marketing
> >>> and promo department.
> >>>
> >>> - I will ask Sebastian Trueg to get in contact with you and see if he
> >>> can help out on the Nepomuk things.
> >>>
> >>> - When it comes to technical questions you should really contact the
> >>> appropriate developers through IRC, mailinglists etc, if you need
> >>> help ask me. For more in-depth consultancy contact one of the KDE
> >>> businesses.
> >>>
> >>> Did I miss anything?
> >>>
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> Jos Poortvliet KDE Marketing
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> St=C3=A9phane Lauri=C4=8Dre
> >> Mandriva http://mandriva.com
> >> Mobile: +33 6 45 81 62 02
> >> http://twitter.com/arkub
> >
> >
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Hi Jos,<br><br>I guess the guys missed the appointment due to flight schedule... not \
sure if any other contacts there.<br><br>We'll be back to you on kde sometime in \
the near future...<br><br>Ciao<br>G<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"> 2010/2/18 Jos \
Poortvliet <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:jospoortvliet@gmail.com">jospoortvliet@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Did you guys manage to find each other and discuss a \
few things? With<br> the latest release of the KDE libraries Nepomuk has been deemed \
ready<br> for public consumption after significant improvements. It might be<br>
worth evaluating it once again...<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Giovanni Martinelli<br>
<<a href="mailto:giovanni.martinelli@itsme.it">giovanni.martinelli@itsme.it</a>> \
wrote:<br> > Hi there,<br>
><br>
> sorry for not replying first... mail was lost in my backlog<br>
><br>
> There will be few people from Itsme there (Bob, Fabio, Lorenzo & Michele) \
so<br> > good if you know each other!<br>
><br>
> In term of Itsme project we are know putting together some of our building<br>
> blocks and at FOSDEM you will see one of them. From a technical perspective<br>
> we are taking several pieces around that actually fit with our needs: our<br>
> GUI will be Qt based and will probably re-use some KDE as basis, while for<br>
> the part you will see sit on top of tracker.<br>
><br>
> So yes, would be nice for us to talk about future cooperation/synergy but<br>
> would be perfect for us to postpone the discussion for a month or so. We<br>
> are now in a transitional phase in term of internal organization so better<br>
> if we can postpone a bit.<br>
><br>
> Would it still be ok for you? We can probably schedule a conf call for<br>
> sometime beginning of March...<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Giovanni<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 2010/2/1 Stéphane Laurière <<a \
href="mailto:slauriere@mandriva.com">slauriere@mandriva.com</a>><br> >><br>
>> Hi everyone,<br>
>><br>
>> As a follow-up, just in case you don't know about it, Sebastian will<br>
>> give a talk on the current status and the future of Nepomuk in the<br>
>> CrossDesktop room at the FOSDEM next Sunday [1]. That'd be great to \
see<br> >> some ItsMe contributors there for discussing any possible future<br>
>> synergies between the two projects.<br>
>><br>
>> [1] <a href="http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/xd_nepomuk" \
target="_blank">http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/xd_nepomuk</a><br> \
>><br> >> Hoping to see you in Brussels,<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers<br>
>><br>
>> Stéphane Lauričre, in charge of semantic and collaborative \
technologies<br> >> at Mandriva<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Vincenzo Di Massa<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:vincenzo.dimassa@gmail.com">vincenzo.dimassa@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br> >>>><br>
>>>> I CC Nico Sica, our PR person, and Giovanni Martinelli, our \
developement<br> >>>> leader, so that KDE-promo has the contacts of \
the<br> >>>> persons in the "control room".<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Then I CC Michele Tameni our "worst enemy" Gnome fanboy \
and itsme<br> >>>> developer :-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi all!<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Btw, it is not itsme talking to KDE here, it is Vincenzo speaking. \
Only<br> >>>> Giovanni and Nico can speak for itsme.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I answer inline ...<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Jos Poortvliet<br>
>>>> <<a \
href="mailto:jospoortvliet@gmail.com">jospoortvliet@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> \
>>><br> >>> <snip><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Maybe it's worth an interview or you guys can host a meeting \
or<br> >>>>> something sometime, that's a neath way of getting \
closer to the<br> >>>>> KDE community.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Nico, Giovanni: what about a meeting or hosting? Even skype call<br>
>>>> could be a nice start point.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Depending on what and how much you do with KDE technology a story on \
the<br> >>> dot might be possible. That's quite a high-profile site with \
many<br> >>> other news sites picking it up.<br>
>>><br>
>>> <snip><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> You know the effect that the 4.0 release had on Gtk/Gnome \
people...<br> >>>> we are not there anymore, but it still hurts \
sometimes. (I'm not<br> >>>> blaming the 4.0 release, but we must \
admit it gave new energies to<br> >>>> so many trolls). Maybe talking \
with KDE people who are good at<br> >>>> communicating it could emerge \
how much KDE technologies shine today<br> >>>> :-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Well, the 4.0 release has hurt some users (due to distributions \
shipping<br> >>> it despite our discouragement), but since then our \
developer<br> >>> force has doubled. For developers the 4.0 release was \
great - a<br> >>> framework which is technically ahead of whatever MS and \
Apple can throw at<br> >>> us.<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Well, lets me "patch" this part of my previous email: we \
studied<br> >>>> and internally documented many KDE technologies (plamsa, \
akonadi,<br> >>>> nepomuk, soprano, strigi, -virtuoso-, and others I \
can't remember<br> >>>> right now)... we had meetings where everyone \
else had to<br> >>>> listen/learn about those pieces of software. Then we \
decided to<br> >>>> start using soprano+sesame2... I was involved in the \
implementation<br> >>>> of a basic backend for soprano then moved back to \
GUI stuff.<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Look at the following slides (particularly slide 82) for a<br>
>>>> description of what role soprano played<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/itsmesrl/itsme-lezione-usi-lugano" \
target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/itsmesrl/itsme-lezione-usi-lugano</a><br> \
>>><br> >>> Interesting.<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Since then we had problems with soprano and a guy in our team<br>
>>>> started experimenting with tracker. He immediately felt better \
with<br> >>>> tracker (he is a Gtk/Gnome kind of person :-P), and the \
whole team<br> >>>> was convinced that using tracker + DIY (do it \
yourself) would be<br> >>>> better than trying to fix soprano (wich \
because of sesame was<br> >>>> really feature missing at the time). Since \
then they migrated<br> >>>> Guglielmo (the itsme equivalent of \
nepomuk-kde) and AVFS (will have<br> >>>> a new name shortly, basically \
it is a fuse overlay over the RDF<br> >>>> storage, sort of like \
KIO::nepomuk) to tracker.<br> >>><br>
>>> Well, that is unfortunate as it is my understanding from Sebastian<br>
>>> Trueg's website that the new virtuosa backend for Soprano kind'a \
solves the<br> >>> problems it has... <a href="http://trueg.wordpress.com/" \
target="_blank">http://trueg.wordpress.com/</a><br> >>><br>
>>>> Our initial Guglielmo code will hopefully be released as<br>
>>>> open-source in a month or so.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So they know what the technologies do, and they tried to use<br>
>>>> them... Where I wrote "our developers not understanding the \
benefit<br> >>>> of the Nepomuk integration with the rest of KDE \
products" please<br> >>>> read "our developers not evaluating \
the benefits of the Nepomuk<br> >>>> integration with the other KDE \
technologies more than the efforts<br> >>>> needed to fix \
Nepomuk/Soprano".<br> >>>><br>
>>>> In my opinion what my team is not "understanding" is that \
the<br> >>>> flexibility and the tight integration of KDE technologies is \
really<br> >>>> huge compared to the cost of "fixing it when it \
does not work for<br> >>>> your needs".<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes, I guess that's something really worth communicating. It takes \
a<br> >>> while to get the infrastructure up and running but once you do \
you<br> >>> can get features others spend months on in a couple of \
hours.<br> >>><br>
>>>>> Tracker is really not flexible enough for what you want to do, \
as<br> >>>>> far as I can tell.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I have the same impression, but I guess that experimenting both \
tracker<br> >>>> and soprano is added value to itsme and KDE and Gnome \
:-)<br> >>>><br>
>>>> Maybe we could write a post about the switch and its reasons.<br>
>>><br>
>>> That would be interesting - if anyone on your team could blog about \
that,<br> >>> I can link to it from <a href="http://planet.kde.org" \
target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a>. Or even more interesting,<br> >>> talk \
about it with Sebastian ;-)<br> >>><br>
>>>>> How about we get a Nepomuk person to your company to help you \
guys out?<br> >>>><br>
>>>> I would love to meet people from the Nepomuk team (we contacted<br>
>>>> Sebastian Trueg while working on soprano and also submitted some \
patches)<br> >>><br>
>>> Cool. I guess you contacted developers using IRC or mailinglists or<br>
>>> personal mail? This works best when it comes to getting answers ;-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Of course when it comes to making decisions on technology there are \
a<br> >>> couple of companies in the KDE ecosystem who can help with that. \
For<br> >>> example KDAB, BasysKom, KO GmbH and Collabora.<br>
>>><br>
>>> To get down to business:<br>
>>><br>
>>> - I would love to hear a bit more about your usage of KDE \
technologies,<br> >>> that might lead to a dot story. We can take it from \
there and see if there<br> >>> are more ways to cooperate in the \
marketing<br> >>> and promo department.<br>
>>><br>
>>> - I will ask Sebastian Trueg to get in contact with you and see if \
he<br> >>> can help out on the Nepomuk things.<br>
>>><br>
>>> - When it comes to technical questions you should really contact the<br>
>>> appropriate developers through IRC, mailinglists etc, if you need<br>
>>> help ask me. For more in-depth consultancy contact one of the KDE<br>
>>> businesses.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Did I miss anything?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Greetings,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jos Poortvliet KDE Marketing<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Stéphane Lauričre<br>
>> Mandriva <a href="http://mandriva.com" \
target="_blank">http://mandriva.com</a><br> >> Mobile: +33 6 45 81 62 02<br>
>> <a href="http://twitter.com/arkub" \
target="_blank">http://twitter.com/arkub</a><br> ><br>
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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