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Subject: Re: [kde-promo] [kde-ev-marketing] Opinion: Stop developing for the
From: Wade Olson <wade () corefunction ! com>
Date: 2009-04-14 20:57:24
Message-ID: a42b7670904141357n5c03a9c4vbdcf0afd772bed96 () mail ! gmail ! com
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"Desktop or Web-based: It's a matter of Semantics"
Thanks, you just gave me a book title.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Heath Matlock <heathmatlock@gmail.com>wrote:
> Look to the social semantic desktop, it's the future :)
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Jeff Mitchell <mitchell@kde.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello Martin,
>>
>> I'd like to add onto what Sebas said (he made many very good points).
>>
>> One issue I see is ownership of data. When everything is on the web,
>> off in the "cloud" somewhere, where is your data, and who does it belong
>> to?
>>
>> In some sense it belongs to "you", because you created that content
>> (calendar entries, photos, mail, notes, videos, music)...but in an
>> underlying sense, the majority of these sites are not F/OSS, and they
>> are in it to make money (even if they don't know how yet) -- and all of
>> "your" data can go away in an instant. Videos you uploaded to YouTube
>> without realizing they were infringing on copyright; music you put into
>> your MP3Tunes locker before they upped the yearly price from $40 to $120
>> for normal-sized collections; Photos you put on AOL Photo before they
>> closed down the service; backups of files you put on Amazon S3 before
>> you forgot to update your payment information with your new credit card;
>> pretty much anything you put on your T-Mobile G1 Android-based phone
>> (all data is stored on Google's servers) before you switch to Verizon.
>> If you put your data on one of these services thinking it was safe, and
>> then removed your local copies, you could be in for a big disappointment
>> someday.
>>
>> Local storage is crucial to people that care about their data. Remote
>> backups are of course important...syncing your local data with online
>> services is also great and can be very useful, but there are compelling
>> reasons why maintaining local access to your data is extremely important
>> -- and you need a way to interact with this data, locally ("the
>> desktop"). You also need ways to actually perform the syncing of
>> calendars and mail and notes to online services, unless you want to
>> always be locked into web paradigms; even AJAX can't help you if some
>> services' servers are overloaded and taking seconds per click (forever,
>> right? If this was a desktop application we'd ditch it!), and as Sebas
>> pointed out, there are many ways in which web user interfaces have a
>> long way to go to to match what you can see from something like the KDE
>> Plasma workspace.
>>
>> Besides, there are simply many things that web software can't do (yet)
>> -- it can't fill music onto your iPod; it can't capture video off of
>> your 1394-based camcorder; it can't actually pull the photos off your
>> digital camera. There have been the rumors of the "Google OS" for a
>> long time: a browser-based operating system full of various applications
>> (other implementations of this concept do in fact already exist,
>> although I can't remember the names). I think that if people started
>> using such an OS (discounting the fact that they need an OS to run the
>> browser in the first place) they'd find it very limiting after a fairly
>> short time (perhaps around the time they wanted to plug their USB-based
>> device into the computer, or maybe when they wanted to open an instant
>> messaging application and it took more than half a second on their brand
>> new Core i7).
>>
>> So -- we need desktop software, because at a bare minimum we need
>> something that can actually interact with the web- and server-based apps
>> that are out there and provide them with our generated data; and above
>> this bare minimum, we need and want explicit control over a copy of our
>> data, which essentially necessitates a local copy of our data that we
>> can interact with. (Taking it a step further: this is a good argument
>> for F/OSS software, in that it is as close to "owned by you" as you can
>> get, in terms of the software that allows you to perform your daily
>> tasks without restrictions.) Given that desktop software must exist, an
>> environment and platform for them must exist (even if that is nothing
>> more than XMonad).
>>
>> KDE is a huge ecosystem, and provides just about anything you could need
>> to perform those local interaction with your data, whether it be
>> PIM-related data, music, videos, instant messaging, and more. As Sebas
>> discussed, KDE is striving to blur the lines between "the desktop" and
>> "the web", allowing you to interact with your data locally, but also
>> perform the syncing and remote management and access of your data that
>> people have come to expect, plus fetch and pull data from a huge variety
>> of sources (weather, comics, photos, newsfeeds, and more are all
>> available as Plasmoids; Amarok is adding huge numbers of Internet-based
>> music services and it's easy to write more; DigiKam supports export to
>> Flickr and SmugMug; and so on).
>>
>> Should we stop developing for the desktop? No -- we should strive to
>> make the local operating environment interact with the wealth of
>> Web/Internet services now available to consumers. But we should not
>> forget that there are legitimate reasons why local interaction with data
>> remains important and necessary functionality, especially for those with
>> a F/OSS mindset. Perhaps, many years down the line, web applications
>> will take over the majority of our lives. In the interim it is still
>> crucial to have a fully-functional local environment. I think KDE is
>> doing an excellent job showing what a F/OSS ecosystem can accomplish,
>> delivering (starting with the release of KDE 4.2 in January) a truly
>> next-gen platform (including a desktop workspace) to end-users that
>> enables full local interoperability with the data important to them,
>> while raising interactivity with online services for users that desire
>> this functionality.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.
>>
>> Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set
>> digest on or temporarily stop your subscription.
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.
>
> Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set
> digest on or temporarily stop your subscription.
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
"Desktop or Web-based: It's a matter of Semantics"<br><br>Thanks, you \
just gave me a book title.<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 \
at 12:44 PM, Heath Matlock <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:heathmatlock@gmail.com">heathmatlock@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> \
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); \
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Look to the social semantic desktop, \
it's the future :)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"> <div><div></div><div \
class="h5">On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Jeff Mitchell <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:mitchell@kde.org" target="_blank">mitchell@kde.org</a>></span> \
wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div \
class="h5">Hello Martin,<br> <br>
I'd like to add onto what Sebas said (he made many very good points).<br>
<br>
One issue I see is ownership of data. When everything is on the web,<br>
off in the "cloud" somewhere, where is your data, and who does it belong \
to?<br> <br>
In some sense it belongs to "you", because you created that content<br>
(calendar entries, photos, mail, notes, videos, music)...but in an<br>
underlying sense, the majority of these sites are not F/OSS, and they<br>
are in it to make money (even if they don't know how yet) -- and all of<br>
"your" data can go away in an instant. Videos you uploaded to YouTube<br>
without realizing they were infringing on copyright; music you put into<br>
your MP3Tunes locker before they upped the yearly price from $40 to $120<br>
for normal-sized collections; Photos you put on AOL Photo before they<br>
closed down the service; backups of files you put on Amazon S3 before<br>
you forgot to update your payment information with your new credit card;<br>
pretty much anything you put on your T-Mobile G1 Android-based phone<br>
(all data is stored on Google's servers) before you switch to Verizon.<br>
If you put your data on one of these services thinking it was safe, and<br>
then removed your local copies, you could be in for a big disappointment<br>
someday.<br>
<br>
Local storage is crucial to people that care about their data. Remote<br>
backups are of course important...syncing your local data with online<br>
services is also great and can be very useful, but there are compelling<br>
reasons why maintaining local access to your data is extremely important<br>
-- and you need a way to interact with this data, locally ("the<br>
desktop"). You also need ways to actually perform the syncing of<br>
calendars and mail and notes to online services, unless you want to<br>
always be locked into web paradigms; even AJAX can't help you if some<br>
services' servers are overloaded and taking seconds per click (forever,<br>
right? If this was a desktop application we'd ditch it!), and as Sebas<br>
pointed out, there are many ways in which web user interfaces have a<br>
long way to go to to match what you can see from something like the KDE<br>
Plasma workspace.<br>
<br>
Besides, there are simply many things that web software can't do (yet)<br>
-- it can't fill music onto your iPod; it can't capture video off of<br>
your 1394-based camcorder; it can't actually pull the photos off your<br>
digital camera. There have been the rumors of the "Google OS" for a<br>
long time: a browser-based operating system full of various applications<br>
(other implementations of this concept do in fact already exist,<br>
although I can't remember the names). I think that if people started<br>
using such an OS (discounting the fact that they need an OS to run the<br>
browser in the first place) they'd find it very limiting after a fairly<br>
short time (perhaps around the time they wanted to plug their USB-based<br>
device into the computer, or maybe when they wanted to open an instant<br>
messaging application and it took more than half a second on their brand<br>
new Core i7).<br>
<br>
So -- we need desktop software, because at a bare minimum we need<br>
something that can actually interact with the web- and server-based apps<br>
that are out there and provide them with our generated data; and above<br>
this bare minimum, we need and want explicit control over a copy of our<br>
data, which essentially necessitates a local copy of our data that we<br>
can interact with. (Taking it a step further: this is a good argument<br>
for F/OSS software, in that it is as close to "owned by you" as you can<br>
get, in terms of the software that allows you to perform your daily<br>
tasks without restrictions.) Given that desktop software must exist, an<br>
environment and platform for them must exist (even if that is nothing<br>
more than XMonad).<br>
<br>
KDE is a huge ecosystem, and provides just about anything you could need<br>
to perform those local interaction with your data, whether it be<br>
PIM-related data, music, videos, instant messaging, and more. As Sebas<br>
discussed, KDE is striving to blur the lines between "the desktop" and<br>
"the web", allowing you to interact with your data locally, but also<br>
perform the syncing and remote management and access of your data that<br>
people have come to expect, plus fetch and pull data from a huge variety<br>
of sources (weather, comics, photos, newsfeeds, and more are all<br>
available as Plasmoids; Amarok is adding huge numbers of Internet-based<br>
music services and it's easy to write more; DigiKam supports export to<br>
Flickr and SmugMug; and so on).<br>
<br>
Should we stop developing for the desktop? No -- we should strive to<br>
make the local operating environment interact with the wealth of<br>
Web/Internet services now available to consumers. But we should not<br>
forget that there are legitimate reasons why local interaction with data<br>
remains important and necessary functionality, especially for those with<br>
a F/OSS mindset. Perhaps, many years down the line, web applications<br>
will take over the majority of our lives. In the interim it is still<br>
crucial to have a fully-functional local environment. I think KDE is<br>
doing an excellent job showing what a F/OSS ecosystem can accomplish,<br>
delivering (starting with the release of KDE 4.2 in January) a truly<br>
next-gen platform (including a desktop workspace) to end-users that<br>
enables full local interoperability with the data important to them,<br>
while raising interactivity with online services for users that desire<br>
this functionality.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps,<br>
<font color="#888888">Jeff<br>
<br>
</font><br><br></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.<br>
<br>
Visit <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo</a> to unsubscribe, \
set digest on or temporarily stop your subscription.<br></blockquote></div>
<br>
<br><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.<br>
<br>
Visit <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo</a> to unsubscribe, \
set digest on or temporarily stop your subscription.<br></blockquote></div> <br>
_______________________________________________
This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.
Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set digest on \
or temporarily stop your subscription.
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