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List:       kde-promo
Subject:    Re: [kde-promo] discover.kde.org got a lifting
From:       Pier-Olivier Thibault <ximaginex () gmail ! com>
Date:       2007-08-25 17:45:55
Message-ID: 200708251345.55573.ximaginex () gmail ! com
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> I don't believe that a user wants to play only to navigate a site. We're
> talking about people we want to convey information to, not a fancy web \
> 2.0 showcase.
It's quite far from being a fancy web 2.0 showcase.
> > > Less is more, especially
> > > talking about menu options, 5 is just within what a user can \
> > > understand within a blink of an eye. If we think we need more items \
> > > as top-level navigation, we're doing something wrong.
> > 
> > Well I could easily make this website using 6-7 sections and I don't \
> > see why it would be much worse than 5.
> 
> Because 5 links are the number of links that a user can grasp at once, \
> more than that and the user has to think about those options. I'm pretty \
> darn sure we should keep it at 5 options, and that we shouldn't need a
> scrollbar. Ask *any* usability dude if main menu options behind an \
> unneeded scrollbar are useful and you'll get a clear answer: "Not at \
> all".
Well here we'll never agree, I think 5 sections is quite limited. 
> > > If someone wants to work on the structure of the content, by the way,
> > > *do* post the ideas here first, otherwise we'll duplicate work again
> > > and there has been quite some thought put into what's currently \
> > > there. We should avoid stepping on each other's toes.
> > 
> > Yes, we'll talk about it on 1 e-mail than we'll have every single rant
> > about our idea cuz everyone will have a different thought of what we
> > mean, no thank you. I rather implement a feature than talk about it, in
> > the last year or so I found out that discussing an idea before creating
> > it only start
> > bikeshedding discussion.
> 
> You should at least respect the decisions made by those that actually put
> work into that, and until now you didn't.
same goes to you mate, you criticize 99% of what we made.
> > By the way, before you go on stepping each other's toe, let me remind \
> > you that you had not committed a single thing in 3 weeks nor talk about \
> > it on the mailing list. I understand you may be busy but the idea of
> > discover.kde.org is mine and I felt it need to be moving forward.
> 
> I think this "this is my site, and you didn't work hard enough" does not
> work for Free Software, you should know better than that.
It's not what I meant. I meant I tthought back then that d.k.o was being 
dropped by everyone just like spreadkde...
> > > > Also the content needs to be
> > > > placed in other files(plain php files with no html structure). I
> > > > don't see any need however, why the infrastructure needs to be \
> > > > 'back ported'.
> > > 
> > > Well, either make it clear in the README how the page is to be
> > > structured (so it's easy to contribute) or adhere to what's already \
> > > in README.txt. The file is there to keep stuff consistent when more \
> > > people contribute.
> > 
> > You're right
> > 
> > > > One thing I agree on, like Jos said; alot of the content seems
> > > > application specific but also has references to 4.0.
> > > 
> > > Sure, we're presenting KDE 4.0 to the user, without applications, \
> > > it's a bit abstract, no?
> > 
> > No it's not abstract if you talk about the desktop environment, \
> > discover is doing promotion of KDE, not its sub project (Amarok, \
> > Koffice, etc) while you can name them briefly, describing what they do \
> > how they behave is not what we're looking for with d.k.o.
> 
> To make myself clear: The users we're targeting do not know what a \
> desktop is, neither do they care. And they never won't if we try to \
> educate them about this technical details, rather than showing them a \
> complete solution they can just work with. A 'normal' user doesn't want \
> to go looking for application, and that is also not my idea of what KDE \
> should provide. So applications it is. If you had a look at the content, \
> you'd see that it takes a very user- and usage-centric approach ("Learn", \
> "communicate" ...).
I agree, I just wish not to talk exclusively of every single apps that KDE 
provides. but I guess you know more than me what is good/bad about \
promotion  of KDE
> The content about the workspace (for example screenshots showing it, and
> references in the text) is not there simply because the workspace is not
> there yet.
> 
> > > > Summarising, can someone copy the Backup/README.txt and
> > > > Backup/Materials to the base directory or re-circulate it on here.
> > > 
> > > It's really not just that, put the content in as well.
> > 
> > My account is disabled and I have no time to do it..
> 
> That *really* helps -- and I'm talking about the attitude you're \
> exposing.
/ignore the previous comment
> (The more friendly and obvious reaction would be: email sysadmin@kde.org
> for this kind of technical problems).
How bout you do it then? 
> So to be very here's my list of things that need changed:
read 2 lines above
> - content needs to be ported to what's there right now
> - content needs to be finished
> - primary navigation should get rid of scrollbars and adapted to the
> content structure from README.txt (or whatever comes out of that
> discussion, didn't get to *that* one yet)
> 
> Otherwise, I think we're quite far already, which is good.
> 
> Sorry by the way for the rather ranty email, but I'm really annoyed how
> this all goes.
As I said in a previous post, I'm sorry. But you got that mail so I ain't 
gonna apologize once more. 
> I feel that I'm constantly ignored or that things that are 
> common knowledge suddenly become untrue only because I say them -- which
> obviously frustrates me even more.
Constantly being ignored? I feel the very same friend.
 
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