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List:       kde-promo
Subject:    Re: [kde-promo] Negative feedback about KDE non-openmindedness ingerman
From:       Andreas Pour <pour () mieterra ! com>
Date:       2002-02-21 11:14:40
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Philippe FREMY wrote:
> 
> Andreas, there are two problems with the League now:
> 1. nobody knows what it does
> 2. nobody knows what to expect from it.
> 3. you are the only one to manage everything
> [ Okey, I can't count! :-) ]
> 
> Problem 1:
> I am not asking for a detailed list of all the actions and discussion that
> happen in the league although I would be very happy to have that. What is
> really needed is to know that the League is not completely inactive, and a
> way to contact it somehow, to propose ideas. A small news page would
> certainly help:
> 12/12/2002: Annual League member meeting. We will discuss the next budget
> 01/02/2002: Budget finalize
> 17/02/2002: action taken for the DoJ case
> 30/04/2002: Meeting with the KDE eV to see what could be improved in terms
> of PR...
> 05/05/2002: Presentation of the interests of KDE for a big Company (name
> shall remain secret for the moment)
> 07/06/2002: Governement XXX wants to know if KDE could YYYY

I'm not one for keeping diaries, I'm afraid.  If you look around, you
will see I don't even have a personal home page, even though I maintain
about 8 websites (some better than others, for sure) and with the code I
have I could do a diaried homepage in about 5 minutes.

> Stuff like that. If some information needs to remain private, that's ok. But
> this doesn't mean that no information can be revealed.
> 
> The people who put the money in the League clearly decides what is done with
> it. But we would like to know how to propose something.

There is currently no shortage of ideas on how to spend money, but a
severe shortage of people willing to help.  So I hope your proposal
involves something you can contribute?  You can write to "KDE League
Committee <kde-league-commitee@trolltech.com>".
 
> Problem 2:
> When one reads the League's goal, one thinks that the League is the solution
> to all KDE promotion problems. And one expects the League to act, to support
> promotion, to discuss budget, ... Add to that that this exactly what the
> Gnome Fundation does. They probably have more money than you. So people come
> and expect something. What we get is almost no answer, no dicussion, no
> support. Very frustrating.
> 
> The solution:
> The League should make it clearer that only its member decide what is done
> with the budget and that they target global promotion effort instead of
> individual effort. So that people know now what to expect.

That is not clear.  The budget will be reconsidered this year, as well
as the organizational structure of the League, and I think we have all
learned things in the last year that will make the League more effective
in meeting the community's needs.  But every minute I spend responding
to these emails, is a minute I don't spend on the budget, and that's why
I was trying to avoid getting caught up with this discussion ;-).
 
> There is enough energy here to put something in place that is independant
> from the League, based on volonteer effort and public discussion like KDE
> has always been (except for this private lists :-) ). The only reason it has
> not existed yet is IMHO because people thought this is what the League was.
> Now that we know that it is not the case, we can start something.

Even if the League has funds for something, I for one would not favor
funding projects that don't involve some volunteer work.  An example is
CD giveaways, which are very ineffective for a free project (AOL is
another story, they charge a whole lot of money, plus ads, when you sign
up with them).

But I do very much favor supporting volunteers with expenses and things
like that (such as paying a developer's travel costs to give a
presentation at a conference, and similar initiatives).
 
> Problem 3:
> Just like Linus, you don't scale. It seems that the main problem is that you
> can't work publicly because of the League and you have plenty of stuff to
> do. But there are people that are willing to help you and that could
> certainly do so according to your expectations. I suggest you create some
> kind of private list to deal with all the League stuff and select the
> volonteer people willing to participate. You could certainly delegate some
> stuff. And every week, I see some messages like "How can I help, I only know
> html and no C++". This kind of guy could do the website updates.

This is a very nice theory, but here again, we are talking and nothing
is getting done.  Where is this mythical person?

The lessons of experience are this:  there are a lot of people who
express interest, but it takes a tremendous amount of training and
supervision until someone is up to speed.  Basically everyone who has
taken a new contributor under their wing has had the experience where
they have gone through the process only to have the person suddenly lose
interest, and actually most new contributors fall into this category.

The basic problem is there is no easy way to ensure someone is truly
committed.  Unless they prove it.  There are a number of ways to prove
it.  For example, if you ask to help, and someone does not respond, ask
again, and again, and again.  Do what you can on your own in the
meantime, and show your results. Be persistent.  Show you don't give up
at the sign of the first obstacle, and that your interest is not just a
passing fancy.  Make someone believe that if they work with you, it will
yield benefits for the project and perhaps even to them.

This probably seems a bit messed up from your perspective - why do I
have to work so hard to volunteer my time?  Well, getting someone
up-to-speed so they can publicly represent KDE in a useful way -- such
as maintaining the League website, as you suggest -- takes a lot of
time.  PR is a delicate matter, and it is far easier to do damage than
it is to do good, even with people having the best intentions.

So if I spend 20 hours working with someone (and they spend 20 hours
learning), it probably gets as much done as I could do in 5 hours
alone.  So if after 20 hours they quit, you see how the math works out. 
(Just to give you some idea, a PR firm will generally assume it takes 1
month of full-time work to get up-to-speed on a project.)  So, my (and
most others who have gotten burned) policy is not to work with people
unless they have convinced me of their commitment and that working with
that person will yield a net gain for the project.

> When I look at it, what I see is lack the name of a responsible for stuff.
> KDE has a too informal organisation for the moment. We need to clearly
> define a list of contacts for organisation stuff.

Are you volunteering?  Because it is easy to point out these problems;
but quite another matter to find someone who does it.

Which is another reason I like to avoid these discussions:  I can spend
hours responding to emails and in the end nothing has been accomplished
except some archives got bigger.  I hope you prove me wrong :-).
 
> And "responsible" is not to be taken as "the one you should blame when it
> goes wrong" but "the one you should contact for ideas, improvements and help
> proposal".

[ . . . ]

Ciao,

Dre
 
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