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List: kde-pim
Subject: Re: Simplifying Korganizer
From: Olivier Churlaud <olivier () churlaud ! com>
Date: 2017-09-12 5:54:24
Message-ID: 0528C3FF-E830-4103-AF30-27E9CB391AEB () churlaud ! com
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Hi,
I thought about your answers and I think that the problem is that \
Korganizer adds a level of complexity : Kontact aggregates several \
applications in one. But Korganizer does the same. So if you want to use \
the journal (idem for tasks) you can do: Kontact > Journal or Kontact > \
Korganizer > Journal.
I think the second path is not really relevant and quite complex.
What if we still used the same code for all apps (as it is now) and provide \
3 separate entry points (understand executable binaries) : Korganizer, \
Tasks, Journal? Names can change of course.
This way a user would now what they are using and what the scope of the \
program is. If a user wants to easily switch between them, Kontact's \
purposes is exactly that.
What do you think?
Cheers,
Olivier
Le 4 septembre 2017 05:49:32 GMT+02:00, "Daniel Vrátil" <dvratil@kde.org> \
a écrit :
> On Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:35:12 CEST Olivier Churlaud wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to do a very bold proposition.
> >
> > To give some context, Korganizer is the KDE application I use the
> most after
> > KMail. And even though, I have trouble to switch between the views
> that are
> > quite mixed :
> >
> > - Agenda
> > - Month
> > - Timeline
> > - Tasks
> > - Journal
> >
> > Korganizer's strenght is in the event management : so I imagine a
> calendar,
> > with 3 views:
> > - all the events in a list,
> > - an agenda (with a focus on a month or a week or a day)
> > - timelines (without focus, just endless lines that loads when
> shown, or
> > based on the 3 agenda focus).
> >
> > First comment here : Month shall be a subset of agenda, which is
> currently
> > not the case, and I find it always strange.
>
> Agenda has some very special features that make no sense in month view
> - for
> example you can display the day's/week's agenda for each calendar next
> to each
> other, rather than mixed into a single view. This makes no sense in
> month
> view. So code-wise the separation makes sense. UI-wise, there can be
> improvements, e.g. just by having "Day", "Week", "Month" buttons in the
>
> toolbar.
>
> > Tasks: Now that Zanshin is mature, why do we need to have tasks in
> > Korganizer? Zanshin beeing well integrated in Kontact, I would remove
> that
> > from korganizer, making it easier to use.
>
> Zanshin can be a good alternative to Tasks, but it lacks lots of the
> funcionality and richness that KOrganizer has for tasks, as Zanshin is
> designed with certain workflow in mind. I'm fairly sure many people,
> especially
> in enterprise, would not like that.
>
> It would also requires Zanshin to become a KDE Applications (it's in
> Extragear) and start having regular releases, which is up to Kévin.
>
> >
> > And what is Journal? I have no answer for this, but I think that a
> > specialized application integrated in Korganizer would anyway be
> better.
>
> Journal is like your diary - you can create journal logs for specific
> dates.
> Useful for meeting logs.
>
> Why do you think that a dedicated application would be better? UX/UI
> wise I'm
> pretty sure this could be fixed on KOrganizer level - like not showing
> event-
> only calendars in Journal etc.) Code-wise it would not help at all,
> since you
> would be recreating lots of the code that KOrganizer already has and
> shares
> between events, tasks and journals....we want less code to maintain,
> not more
> ;)
>
> >
> > This would drastically simplify the toolbar menu, and the Korganizer
> code.
> > In term of UX, currently it's hard to know in which view and which
> content
> > we are : events ? journal ? tasks ? are they the same content ? well
> if
> > not, being in the same window with the exact same menus is very
> strange for
> > users....
>
> On one hand, that's the beauty of it: a uniform UI for everything. I
> would
> hate it if I would have to toggle visible tasks differently than
> visible
> events just because they would be different applications...
>
> >
> >
> > What do you think ? If you think it is relevant and a good idea, I'm
> ok to
> > do a patch in this direction. But since it would be quite a
> destructive
> > patch, I think we must talk about this. And I'm open to discussion
> and
> > argumentation, if it is possible.
>
> I would prefer a constructive patch instead :-) Identify the actual
> issues and
> create solutions for them (e.g. "Remove 'Agenda' from toolbar", "Make
> 'Day'
> and 'Week' actions enabled even if 'Month' is selected", etc.). I'm
> sure many
> of those issues can be fixed just by having a different KXmlUI rc file
> for
> standalone KOrganizer and for KParts....
>
>
> Dan
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Olivier
>
>
> --
> Daniel Vrátil
> www.dvratil.cz | dvratil@kde.org
> IRC: dvratil on Freenode (#kde, #kontact, #akonadi, #fedora-kde)
>
> GPG Key: 0x4D69557AECB13683
> Fingerprint: 0ABD FA55 A4E6 BEA9 9A83 EA97 4D69 557A ECB1 3683
--
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma \
brièveté.
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head></head><body>Hi,<br>
<br>
I thought about your answers and I think that the problem is that \
Korganizer adds a level of complexity :<br> Kontact aggregates several \
applications in one. But Korganizer does the same.<br> So if you want to \
use the journal (idem for tasks) you can do: Kontact > Journal or \
Kontact > Korganizer > Journal.<br> <br>
I think the second path is not really relevant and quite complex.<br>
<br>
What if we still used the same code for all apps (as it is now) and provide \
3 separate entry points (understand executable binaries) : Korganizer, \
Tasks, Journal? Names can change of course.<br> <br>
This way a user would now what they are using and what the scope of the \
program is. If a user wants to easily switch between them, Kontact's \
purposes is exactly that.<br> <br>
What do you think?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Olivier<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 4 septembre 2017 05:49:32 \
GMT+02:00, "Daniel Vrátil" <dvratil@kde.org> a écrit \
:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <pre \
class="k9mail">On Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:35:12 CEST Olivier Churlaud \
wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hello,<br /> \
<br /> I would like to do a very bold proposition.<br /> <br /> To give \
some context, Korganizer is the KDE application I use the most after<br /> \
KMail. And even though, I have trouble to switch between the views that \
are<br /> quite mixed :<br /> <br /> - Agenda<br /> - Month<br /> - \
Timeline<br /> - Tasks<br /> - Journal<br /> <br /> Korganizer's strenght \
is in the event management : so I imagine a calendar,<br /> with 3 \
views:<br /> - all the events in a list,<br /> - an agenda (with a focus \
on a month or a week or a day)<br /> - timelines (without focus, just \
endless lines that loads when shown, or<br /> based on the 3 agenda \
focus).<br /> <br /> First comment here : Month shall be a subset of \
agenda, which is currently<br /> not the case, and I find it always \
strange.<br /></blockquote><br />Agenda has some very special features that \
make no sense in month view - for <br />example you can display the \
day's/week's agenda for each calendar next to each <br />other, rather than \
mixed into a single view. This makes no sense in month <br />view. So \
code-wise the separation makes sense. UI-wise, there can be <br \
/>improvements, e.g. just by having "Day", "Week", \
"Month" buttons in the <br />toolbar.<br /><br /><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px \
solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Tasks: Now that Zanshin is mature, why \
do we need to have tasks in<br /> Korganizer? Zanshin beeing well \
integrated in Kontact, I would remove that<br /> from korganizer, making it \
easier to use.<br /></blockquote><br />Zanshin can be a good alternative to \
Tasks, but it lacks lots of the <br />funcionality and richness that \
KOrganizer has for tasks, as Zanshin is <br />designed with certain \
workflow in mind. I'm fairly sure many people, especially <br />in \
enterprise, would not like that.<br /><br />It would also requires Zanshin \
to become a KDE Applications (it's in <br />Extragear) and start having \
regular releases, which is up to Kévin.<br /><br /><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px \
solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> And what is Journal? I have no \
answer for this, but I think that a<br /> specialized application \
integrated in Korganizer would anyway be better.<br /></blockquote><br \
/>Journal is like your diary - you can create journal logs for specific \
dates. <br />Useful for meeting logs.<br /><br />Why do you think that a \
dedicated application would be better? UX/UI wise I'm <br />pretty sure \
this could be fixed on KOrganizer level - like not showing event-<br />only \
calendars in Journal etc.) Code-wise it would not help at all, since you \
<br />would be recreating lots of the code that KOrganizer already has and \
shares <br />between events, tasks and journals....we want less code to \
maintain, not more <br />;)<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; \
padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> This would drastically simplify the toolbar \
menu, and the Korganizer code.<br /> In term of UX, currently it's hard to \
know in which view and which content<br /> we are : events ? journal ? \
tasks ? are they the same content ? well if<br /> not, being in the same \
window with the exact same menus is very strange for<br /> users....<br \
/></blockquote><br />On one hand, that's the beauty of it: a uniform UI for \
everything. I would <br />hate it if I would have to toggle visible tasks \
differently than visible <br />events just because they would be different \
applications...<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: \
0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br \
/> <br /> What do you think ? If you think it is relevant and a good idea, \
I'm ok to<br /> do a patch in this direction. But since it would be quite a \
destructive<br /> patch, I think we must talk about this. And I'm open to \
discussion and<br /> argumentation, if it is possible.<br \
/></blockquote><br />I would prefer a constructive patch instead :-) \
Identify the actual issues and <br />create solutions for them (e.g. \
"Remove 'Agenda' from toolbar", "Make 'Day' <br />and 'Week' \
actions enabled even if 'Month' is selected", etc.). I'm sure many <br \
/>of those issues can be fixed just by having a different KXmlUI rc file \
for <br />standalone KOrganizer and for KParts....<br /><br /><br />Dan<br \
/><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; \
border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> Cheers,<br /> \
Olivier<br /></blockquote><br \
/></pre></blockquote></div><br>
-- <br>
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma \
brièveté.</body></html>
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