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List:       kde-pim
Subject:    Re: [Kde-pim] From a users point of view ....
From:       Martin Steigerwald <Martin () lichtvoll ! de>
Date:       2012-02-23 12:40:44
Message-ID: 201202231340.44604.Martin () lichtvoll ! de
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Am Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2012 schrieb Anders Lund:
> Onsdag den 22. februar 2012 11:43:42 Marc Deop skrev:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2012 18:21:22 Denny wrote:
> > > I could spent the whole day fixing new appearing Errors and Crashes
> > > of kde - pim.
> > > Is this just broken by design or why isn't there a working email
> > > client for at least 4 years?
> > > I thought with KDE 4.7.x we were over it and at least basic things
> > > kinda worked stable again.
> > > With KDE 4.8 now - nothing is working anymore, just to name a few
> > > things annoying one one on a daily basis:
> > > - Filters: broken
> > > - Crashes : several per day
> > > - email Addresses not recognised as you type
> > > - password management : broken
> > > - several empty windows popping up from ktimetracke at login ....
> > > =

> > > Am I supposed to create a new profile each and every time I upgrade
> > > to a new version and scrap all my data?
> > > =

> > > Obviously, even Kontact PIM fans gave up by now. What I don't
> > > understand is
> > > why other kde developers step up helping fixing most annoying bugs,
> > > as this
> > > situation damages the whole kde experience.
> > > =

> > > Denny
> > =

> > With this attitude you aren't helping, at all.
> > =

> > Even though I aknowledge there are problems with the PIM suite, last
> > think I would do is rant in here. Instead, offer your help debugging
> > and triagging. *That* might help.
> > =

> > And to the developers: *THANKS* for all your effort and work on KDE.
> > I'm sure it will become bugfree eventually :)
> =

> Marc,
> =

> While I share the appreciation of everyone working on free software and
> kdepim, I still do not understand the desire to censor away
> frustrations. Developers should be willing to harden themseleves a
> bit, and realize that the user frustration comes from a desire to use
> the software in question.

I think its not the frustration as such. Its the accusing tone I recognize =

in the mail from Denny. And the expectation that KDE developers owe any =

kind of - best immediate - remedy.

Frankly, they do not. Cause there is no contract between users of KDEPIM =

and the developers. No one has been paid for any negotiated amount of work =

except from Kolabsys as Georg Greve mentioned here.

That said it is still just fine to want it to work better and to feel =

frustrated about that it isn=B4t holding up to own expectations.

But for anyone who wants to help to make it happen its important to shift =

the energy to resolving problems. So express your frustration from your =

point of view without accusing anyone for your pain, then be done with =

that and think what you can you offer to help getting things fixed.

Of course there is some kind of relationship between developers and users. =

And of course ideally developers provide a suberb application that users =

love and users give praise for it and contribute back.

But how do you create a relationship that works this way? Is "Is this just =

broken by design?" and you owe me to fix it contributing in any way to such =

a kind of relation ship? In my perception it starts a downward spiral of =

accusing each other until someone holds in, stops it and starts to provide =

constructive feedback. And that means users and developers as well.

How instead would "I feel frustrated about this, this and this not =

working, I really do find it difficult to use KDEPIM 2 at all at the moment=
, =

how can I help or what can I do to get a different experience?" with some =

description of what "this, this and this" really is work out? How does =

this feel differently for you?

The KDEPIM developers are not responsible for the pain you are suffering as =

a user. You are when you stick to KDEPIM 2 without helping to make it =

better. Your options are:

1) Help to make it better.

2) Switch clients.

3) Use a distro that actually means stable when it says stable. Debian =

still has KDEPIM 1 even up to KDE 4.7.4 experimental packages. KDEPIM is =

still at 4.4.5. And it just damn works - except some annoying but rather =

minor issue compared to what I read here regarding KDEPIM 2. Debian also =

did not put KDE 4.0 or 4.1 out to its users. These versions IMHO have not =

been ready for production yet. =


I do use this option 3 in production and it serves me well.

If you consider KDEPIM 2 not to be production ready then by all means help =

to make it so or switch clients.

Its simply as easy as that.

And yes, you are entitled every right to feel frustrated about your =

expectations not being satisfied at the moment.

But please just don=B4t make someone else responsible for your self inflict=
ed =

pain.

> In your reply to Denny, you first ban him, accusing him of bad
> attitude, then say he is right, and suggest that he help, but not how
> to get started. Do you think that is comforting, or constructive from
> his point of view? I know that it isn't from mine, when I am met with
> that sort of reaction.
> =

> How about in the future, when someone takes the time to tell you about
> his frustrations, instead of making people feel even worse by accusing
> them of being stupid/bad/annoying because they react, offer a bit of
> empathy and a startingpoint to help?
> =

> Maybe it is time to have a "how to help debugging
> kmail/akonadi/nepomuk" page somwhere, and linking to it when
> responding to unhappy users?

I like this idea.

Ciao,
-- =

Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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