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List:       kde-pim
Subject:    Re: [Kde-pim] Last KOrg resources doubts and some comments
From:       Carlos Leonhard Woelz <carloswoelz () imap-mail ! com>
Date:       2005-06-14 16:09:57
Message-ID: 200506141309.57461.carloswoelz () imap-mail ! com
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On Monday 13 June 2005 04:47 am, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> Am Montag, 13. Juni 2005 07:31 schrieb Carlos Leonhard Woelz:
> > GroupDav:
> > - is a wizard planned for 3.5 (since all others have a wizard)?
> > - Is there freebusy support yet?
>
> Free/Busy has nothing to do with group dav. I thought someone started an
> exchange wizard, which could also be used with groupdav... (At least with
> only minimal chnages)

Please enlighten me: Free/Busy is always through publishing a file on a 
server? Is that a standard? Is there other ways to communicate this info (via 
a protocol or something? Do any of the groupware protocol use something 
different? Thanks for coping with my lack of clue :)

> > Exchange:
> > - The wizard does not work for me. Then again, I don't have a valid
> > server, so it may correctly detect that and stop doing harm.
> > - The page http://www.kontact.org/groupwareservers.php shows contacts
> > support as No, but there is a KAddessBook resource. Which one is correct?
> > Does the contacts resource work?
>
> For reading, it's supposed to work, writing definitely doesn't work.

Thanks, updated.

> > "eGroupware Server (via XML-RPC):"
> > Is it important for the user know that the XML-RPC is used to share data
> > with the server? Are there any other implementations that use the same
> > schema? If no, it would be simpler to call the resource simply
> > "eGroupware Server".
>
> phpGroupware also got the patches from tokoe to make their xmlrpc interface
> usable, but I don't know if these were ever applied to a released
> version...

Tobias? Can I remove the "(via XML-RPC)" part of the string, if eGroupware is 
the only supported server?

> Hehe, sounds like "Yes, we have support for remote files, but whatever you
> do, you'll loose your data...".
That is why it is important to warn the user...

> The part about korganizer crashes, well, 
Sorry about it, I replaced it with a nicer example.

> > That should be sufficient to guide the user to the right path, but the
> > defaults to "never" and "never" are certainly confusing for the user: if
> > the resource is read only, I would recommend loading on startup. If the
> > resource is writable, the default should be to load on startup and to
> > save on every event change, or at least on exit. That should minimize
> > data loss.
>
> I agree, these two settings should be default.
Bug filled.


> > Also, when the resource is configured as read only, KOrg still lets me
> > edit the incidents. Bug?
>
> Yes.
Bug filled.

> > But more practically, KOrganizer has its own problems: the ideal would be
> > to separate completely the resources/groupware related configuration from
> > the "KOrg as incidence viewer / editor". The problems with the current
> > implementation are, for instance, the auto save settings from the main
> > config conflict with the resources config, the group scheduling and free
> > busy publishing could be different for different resources: why have only
> > one place to publish free / busy? I can have my Company free / busy and
> > also publish to my fellow KDE developers.
>
> The f/b always includes the whole calendar, that's not resource-specific.
> The f/b information is for planning meetings, and you don't want your
> fellow kde developers schedule an irc meeting during one of your work
> meetings, and the other way round. So the f/b list always needs to include
> all your stuff.

Yes, but you may want to retrieve other people's f/b from more than one place, 
or to publish to more than one place. It is a resource, like the others, I 
see no conceptual difference.

> > There are similar problems in
> > KAddressBook and KMail. So a Resource configuration framework may be
> > needed to solve this problems.
>
> Lots of things are broken in the resource framework, but we change change
> it fundamentally, since it's in kdelibs... It's on the to-do list for kde
> 4, though.
Great. I don't want to discuss things you already know/agree, so thanks for 
telling me.

> > BTW, I love the resource view sidebar, but I am not sure it should be the
> > only place for configuring the resources.
>
> It isn't. There's the kcontrol module for the resource configuration.
Oh. After more than one year working with kdepim, it is the first time I 
notice it. It is great, BTW. I added a reference to it in the docs.

> > It does not appear for to-dos,
> > even if you can add to-do resources.
>
> There's a setting to hide the sidebar for to-dos. I don't know what's the
> default, but I have the to-do list turned off in the sidebar and just show
> the incidence viewer, the date matrix and the resource view. This is quite
> useful also in the to-do view.

No. I meant the resource view is useful for the to-do (main) view, especially 
if you use the bugzilla and feature plan resources, but does not appear by 
default. (Not that it should). You have to enable the sidebar to add to-do 
resources (hard to find), or add it using the calendar view.

> > If you think it is interesting o
> > useful to me to investigate this further, I can list what other programs
> > do when faced with the same configuration problems.
>
> Which other programs do you have in mind?
The ones I have access to are Outlook 2000 and Evolution. But I can hunt for 
screenshots for others.


> I completely agree with you (and with Thomas Z) that our user interfaces
> are inconsistent and sometimes confusing right away. For us developers it's
> often more important to get it to work at all, and there are so many things
> to be fixed, that we mostly lack the time to think about consistent and
> simple user interfaces..

I collect all this feedback as I document KOrg, so if that does not bother you 
I will continue... BTW, having used Outlook and evolution, I don't think the 
interface is confusing.

Cheers,

Carlos Woelz
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