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List:       kde-panel-devel
Subject:    Re: Review Request 118357: Disable the agenda part of the calendar
From:       "Vishesh Handa" <me () vhanda ! in>
Date:       2014-06-13 9:48:40
Message-ID: 20140613094840.16370.31565 () probe ! kde ! org
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> On June 12, 2014, 10:25 a.m., Vishesh Handa wrote:
> > I seem to have missed this change.
> > 
> > The rationale behind this change is that there is no PIM support and therefore we \
> > should remove it. I'm sure you guys would have thought about the following \
> > points, but since the discussion happened on IRC I cannot go through it. 
> > 1. The Agenda part still provides valuable feedback such as the current date + \
> > day 2. What about if someone doesn't have any accounts enabled in KDE PIM? Do we \
> > plan to toggle it on and off based on runtime detection? 3. We clearly want the \
> > agenda in the future. Why break visual consistency among releases, specially \
> > since the work is done. 4. From a promo point of view, we have been showcasing \
> > our calendar widget a LOT. It was the only thing that was shown during FOSDEM. Do \
> > we want to change that?
> 
> Martin Klapetek wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> thanks for that. I remember we also talked about disabling this part back in \
> January in case the pim backend would not be ready, but to your questions: 
> 1. The only thing it provided over the calendar side was the full day name, which \
> itself is not enough to keep the whole popup twice as big as needed. 2. Possibly. \
> Subject to discussion though. 3. I don't believe that in this case the "visual \
> consistency among releases" tops the "it's (visually) bloated for no reason". Also \
> the visual consistency of the calendar will remain in the future, it will just be \
> extended. Limiting ourselves to the very first visuals released in the first \
> release would be quite...limiting :) Plus we might also need to change the agenda \
> part in the future a bit, it wasn't really tested with real agenda data afaik (and \
> so the visual consistency might break anyway). And finally, it may take several \
> releases of Plasma before there's a usable backend. Having that big calendar popup \
> with half of it being pretty much just a whitespace for so long would be just \
> annoying. 4. Indeed, as it was the very first moreless complete applet of Plasma \
> Next. Just now we also have good NM applet and battery applet with new icons worth \
> showing

Just to be clear what we are discussing over here isn't a technical argument. I get \
it, it doesn't work, we shouldn't ship it. I still think the agenda should be there.

1. How about the fact that it is much more readable and it looks much better? If you \
think this is a subjective analysis, we can try to form a general consensus among us \
developers. Or maybe ask the VDG.

2. Alright. Lets ignore that for now.

3. I think it's unfair to use the word bloat over here. I look more at it as small \
iterations in the design. Adding an agenda later totally changes the calendar. Making \
modifications to it, is just iterating over the initial design. Also, by "among \
releases", I also meant wrt KDE4 -> 5. The Calendar is KDE4 times looked similar to \
the one we have now with the agenda.

4. Yes, we have other plasmoids, but that still doesn't change the case that the \
Calendar plasmoid is what we showcased a LOT, and got good feedback about. We're now \
changing that to something which may or may not look good (See point (1)). Also, \
considering that amount of name changing we have done (Plasma 2 -> Plasma Next -> \
Plamsa 5?) it seems sad that we are also changing what most people saw as Plasma when \
we were initially showcasing it.


- Vishesh


-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/118357/#review59861
-----------------------------------------------------------


On June 2, 2014, 12:44 p.m., Martin Klapetek wrote:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/118357/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> (Updated June 2, 2014, 12:44 p.m.)
> 
> 
> Review request for Plasma.
> 
> 
> Repository: plasma-workspace
> 
> 
> Description
> -------
> 
> As agreed on irc (someday ago), the agenda part is useless until there's a proper \
> agenda backend and should just be hidden. Here's a patch simply hiding the left \
> part - it's easier to do just "visible: false" than comment it out and then comment \
> out/remove all the lines referencing parts of the agenda, also cleaner. 
> I added a big comment at the file beginning, I'll fill the commit sha after \
> committing so it can be easily reverted (the comment will be separate commit). 
> Screenshot attached.
> 
> Oh and you might want to remove the clock from panel and readd it/remove plasma \
> config as the popup size seems to be saved and so after this patch you may still \
> get the original-sized half-empty dialog. 
> 
> Diffs
> -----
> 
> applets/digital-clock/package/contents/ui/CalendarView.qml 43812a4 
> 
> Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/118357/diff/
> 
> 
> Testing
> -------
> 
> 
> File Attachments
> ----------------
> 
> Calendar without agenda
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2014/05/27/84880c21-1367-4d48-88db-7747553c40f5__plasma_cal1.png
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Martin Klapetek
> 
> 


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      This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
      <a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/118357/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/118357/</a>
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<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;">  <p style="margin-top: 0;">On June 12th, 2014, 10:25 a.m. UTC, <b>Vishesh \
Handa</b> wrote:</p>  <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid \
#d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">  <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">I seem to have missed this change.

The rationale behind this change is that there is no PIM support and therefore we \
should remove it. I&#39;m sure you guys would have thought about the following \
points, but since the discussion happened on IRC I cannot go through it.

1. The Agenda part still provides valuable feedback such as the current date + day
2. What about if someone doesn&#39;t have any accounts enabled in KDE PIM? Do we plan \
to toggle it on and off based on runtime detection? 3. We clearly want the agenda in \
the future. Why break visual consistency among releases, specially since the work is \
done. 4. From a promo point of view, we have been showcasing our calendar widget a \
LOT. It was the only thing that was shown during FOSDEM. Do we want to change \
that?</pre>  </blockquote>




 <p>On June 13th, 2014, 8:49 a.m. UTC, <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
 <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;">  <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Hey,

thanks for that. I remember we also talked about disabling this part back in January \
in case the pim backend would not be ready, but to your questions:

1. The only thing it provided over the calendar side was the full day name, which \
itself is not enough to keep the whole popup twice as big as needed. 2. Possibly. \
Subject to discussion though. 3. I don&#39;t believe that in this case the \
&quot;visual consistency among releases&quot; tops the &quot;it&#39;s (visually) \
bloated for no reason&quot;. Also the visual consistency of the calendar will remain \
in the future, it will just be extended. Limiting ourselves to the very first visuals \
released in the first release would be quite...limiting :) Plus we might also need to \
change the agenda part in the future a bit, it wasn&#39;t really tested with real \
agenda data afaik (and so the visual consistency might break anyway). And finally, it \
may take several releases of Plasma before there&#39;s a usable backend. Having that \
big calendar popup with half of it being pretty much just a whitespace for so long \
would be just annoying. 4. Indeed, as it was the very first moreless complete applet \
of Plasma Next. Just now we also have good NM applet and battery applet with new \
icons worth showing</pre>  </blockquote>








</blockquote>

<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Just to be clear what we \
are discussing over here isn&#39;t a technical argument. I get it, it doesn&#39;t \
work, we shouldn&#39;t ship it. I still think the agenda should be there.

1. How about the fact that it is much more readable and it looks much better? If you \
think this is a subjective analysis, we can try to form a general consensus among us \
developers. Or maybe ask the VDG.

2. Alright. Lets ignore that for now.

3. I think it&#39;s unfair to use the word bloat over here. I look more at it as \
small iterations in the design. Adding an agenda later totally changes the calendar. \
Making modifications to it, is just iterating over the initial design. Also, by \
&quot;among releases&quot;, I also meant wrt KDE4 -&gt; 5. The Calendar is KDE4 times \
looked similar to the one we have now with the agenda.

4. Yes, we have other plasmoids, but that still doesn&#39;t change the case that the \
Calendar plasmoid is what we showcased a LOT, and got good feedback about. We&#39;re \
now changing that to something which may or may not look good (See point (1)). Also, \
considering that amount of name changing we have done (Plasma 2 -&gt; Plasma Next \
-&gt; Plamsa 5?) it seems sad that we are also changing what most people saw as \
Plasma when we were initially showcasing it.</pre> <br />










<p>- Vishesh</p>


<br />
<p>On June 2nd, 2014, 12:44 p.m. UTC, Martin Klapetek wrote:</p>








<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="8" \
style="background-image: \
url('https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/static/rb/images/review_request_box_top_bg.ab6f3b1072c9.png'); \
background-position: left top; background-repeat: repeat-x; border: 1px black \
solid;">  <tr>
  <td>

<div>Review request for Plasma.</div>
<div>By Martin Klapetek.</div>


<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated June 2, 2014, 12:44 p.m.</i></p>









<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
 <b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
plasma-workspace
</div>


<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
 <table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0">  <tr>
  <td>
   <pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">As agreed on irc (someday ago), the agenda part is useless until \
there&#39;s a proper agenda backend and should just be hidden. Here&#39;s a patch \
simply hiding the left part - it&#39;s easier to do just &quot;visible: false&quot; \
than comment it out and then comment out/remove all the lines referencing parts of \
the agenda, also cleaner.

I added a big comment at the file beginning, I&#39;ll fill the commit sha after \
committing so it can be easily reverted (the comment will be separate commit).

Screenshot attached.

Oh and you might want to remove the clock from panel and readd it/remove plasma \
config as the popup size seems to be saved and so after this patch you may still get \
the original-sized half-empty dialog.</pre>  </td>
 </tr>
</table>



<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">

 <li>applets/digital-clock/package/contents/ui/CalendarView.qml <span style="color: \
grey">(43812a4)</span></li>

</ul>

<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/118357/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>



<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">File Attachments \
</h1>

<ul>

 <li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2014/05/27/84880c21-1367-4d48-88db-7747553c40f5__plasma_cal1.png">Calendar \
without agenda</a></li>

</ul>





  </td>
 </tr>
</table>








  </div>
 </body>
</html>



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