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List: kde-panel-devel
Subject: Re: KDE framework 5 - a humble idea
From: Mark <markg85 () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-09-18 16:10:17
Message-ID: CAPd6JnHQ=RsZ41qZW7D3EhnUuDzCTxniFnKAnOdDcqYWjfbkbg () mail ! gmail ! com
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-- bottom post please --
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Michele Andrea Kipiel <
michele.kipiel@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello
>
> thanks for the quick reply :)
>
> the interaction you describe as "truly communicating plasmoids" is pretty
> much what i imagined when i referred to yahoo pipes. i imagined some
> scenarios for that interactio too: think of a "picture frame" plasmoid
> which displays a new picture every time a twitter profile (national
> geographic, for example) posts a picture. that would require a background
> connection between the two. Another scenario i imagined is a stock based
> one: imagine you have a "stock ticker" plasmoid on your desk, wich is
> connected to a "spreadsheet" plasmoid which registers all the variation of
> a certain stock and then saves them in a file.
>
> The core idea of my proposal is to enable a new interaction layer wich is
> accessible straight from the desktop, without the need to even launch a
> single application after boot&login. The desktop itself would become an
> active environmnt, instead of an empty space.
>
> Would such a desktop fit your workflow?
>
>
> 2013/9/18 Mark <markg85@gmail.com>
>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Michele Andrea Kipiel <
>> michele.kipiel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hello everybody,
>>>
>>> the following message is part of an email i sent a few days ago to Marco
>>> Martin, who then asked me to share my thoughts on this mailng list.
>>>
>>> ***
>>> my name is michele kipiel and i am a ux designer. I currently work for
>>> the Kering luxury group, where i design and user test the checkout
>>> processes and the overall UX of the luxury sites.
>>>
>>> i recently came across a video showing the new KDE framework 5
>>> improvements (the one posted by phoronics, in case you were wondering).
>>>
>>> watching that video reminded me of what immediately struck me when i
>>> first tried KDE 4: the apparent lack of a true purpose for the plasmoids.
>>> as a ux designer i constantly strive towards simplification and
>>> rationalization of the user experience, and the first thing i noticed about
>>> the plasmoids was that they didn't improve my experience in any relevant
>>> way, while taking up lots of space on my small 13" laptop screen.
>>>
>>> i asked myself a simple question: what do i need on my desktop? what i
>>> came to realize is that i could really use a desktop which acts as a
>>> connection point between the hundreds of apps that live on my hard drive.
>>>
>>> current plasmoids act as discrete information bubbles (weather, rss, im,
>>> social feeds etc..) and threy don't communicate with each other, which in
>>> my opinion hampers their usefulness. in other words: what would happen if
>>> KDE added a common backend to connect all the plasmoids (i'm thinking of
>>> something similar to what elementary OS is doing with contractor)?
>>>
>>> imagine this scenario: i have a file manager plasmoid open on my
>>> desktop, along with other ones. i want to share one of my pictures to
>>> facebook. i drag and drop the picture from the file manager plasmoid onto
>>> the "facebook feed" plasmoid, which in turn activates the sharing feature,
>>> allowing me to add a caption, tag my friends and eventually share the
>>> picture.
>>>
>>> now imagine i want to turn the picture in b/w before sharing it: i just
>>> drag and drop the picture onto the "gimp" plasmoid, which shows me a
>>> preview of the picture and lets me select an action form a pool of simple,
>>> predefined functions. once my picture is rendered, i just have to drag it
>>> from the "gimp" plasmoid onto the "facebook" one to share it.
>>>
>>> in these scenarios each plasmoid acts as a graphic frontend that exposes
>>> some functions of the related programs, which don't even need to be
>>> launched. it could be even possible to create predefined sequences
>>> connecting different plasmoids (think of yahoo pipes, for instance).
>>>
>>> i don't know whether this is possible or not, but i believe it could be
>>> a massive leap forward for the KDE desktop paradigm.
>>> ***
>>>
>>> thank you in advance for every comment, positive or negative.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> MK
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Plasma-devel mailing list
>>> Plasma-devel@kde.org
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
>>>
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First of all, i'm not a plasma developer so i can't really comment on
>> your ideas from a plasma desktop point of view. I can on a technical point
>> of view.
>>
>> What you describe as plasmoids talking to each other with the examples
>> you provide isn't really talking to each other at all. It is just properly
>> implementing drag/drop for all plasmoids. So for example, if you want to
>> "drag" an image from your file browser to the "gimp" plasmoid then the
>> "gimp" plasmoid would have to support dropping that specific image format.
>> Furthermore if you want to manipulate that image on the gimp plasmoid and
>> drag the results to facebook then it would have to support drag
>> functionality as well. The facebook plasmoid would then have to accept a
>> drop with that image type and handle it. That is not easy stuff to
>> implement properly. In fact, in pure QML (which the new plasmoids for
>> plasma 2 are) that only becomes possible in Qt 5.2. Now i think KDE had
>> some custom drag/drop components that implemented the same support.
>>
>> Then for plasmoids _really_ talking to each other. If that where to be
>> implemented (which i doubt) then i guess it should work somewhat like this.
>> Reusing your example here. Imagine you have a facebook plasmoid and you're
>> using it. If you then move to a "file manager plasmoid" it should know that
>> you came from the facebook plasmoid. If you then select and drag an image
>> it could automatically pop up a "gimp" plasmoid to throw some fancy filters
>> over your image. The gimp plasmoid (which then knows you came here from the
>> file browser from facebook) should offer an option: "Publish to facebook"
>> or something alike. That would be really plasmoids communicating with each
>> other and would frankly be quite scarry :)
>>
>> Lastly how i use the plasmoids. I'm a developer so i have an interest in
>> more then one console window. So i simply put a bunch of consoles on my
>> desktop along with a CPU monitor. That works quite well, but only works if
>> you have the screen room for it. It doesn't work on one screen since you
>> just don't have the room to see the plasmoids and other windows. I have two
>> screens so that's why it works for me that way.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Plasma-devel mailing list
>> Plasma-devel@kde.org
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Plasma-devel mailing list
> Plasma-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
>
>
Err, i actually don't think it would fit my need very much..
Lets take my developer example here.
How would you make that more interactive?
If you follow your example with a stock tracker then it kinda feels like
logging functionality.. Not something special as an plasmoid that
communicates with - lets say - kexi or some other excel application. And
with the twitter profile, that can be done with data engines.
In fact, i think all the stuff you want can be either implemented using
data engines or (my preference) as a separate QML component.
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div>-- bottom post please --</div>On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM, \
Michele Andrea Kipiel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michele.kipiel@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">michele.kipiel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div \
dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hello<br><br></div>thanks for the quick reply :)<br>
<br></div>the interaction you describe as "truly communicating plasmoids" \
is pretty much what i imagined when i referred to yahoo pipes. i imagined some \
scenarios for that interactio too: think of a "picture frame" plasmoid \
which displays a new picture every time a twitter profile (national geographic, for \
example) posts a picture. that would require a background connection between the two. \
Another scenario i imagined is a stock based one: imagine you have a "stock \
ticker" plasmoid on your desk, wich is connected to a "spreadsheet" \
plasmoid which registers all the variation of a certain stock and then saves them in \
a file. <br>
<br></div>The core idea of my proposal is to enable a new interaction layer wich is \
accessible straight from the desktop, without the need to even launch a single \
application after boot&login. The desktop itself would become an active \
environmnt, instead of an empty space.<br>
<br></div>Would such a desktop fit your workflow?<br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div \
class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/18 Mark \
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:markg85@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">markg85@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:26 AM, \
Michele Andrea Kipiel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michele.kipiel@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">michele.kipiel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div \
dir="ltr"><div><div><div>hello everybody,<br><br></div><div>the following message is \
part of an email i sent a few days ago to Marco Martin, who then asked me to share my \
thoughts on this mailng list.<br>
</div><div></div>
<div><br>***<br>my name is michele kipiel and i am a
ux designer. I currently work for the Kering luxury group, where i
design and user test the checkout processes and the overall UX of the
luxury sites.<br></div>
<br></div>i
recently came across a video showing the new KDE framework 5
improvements (the one posted by phoronics, in case you were wondering). <br>
<br>watching that video reminded me of what immediately struck me when i
first tried KDE 4: the apparent lack of a true purpose for the
plasmoids. as a ux designer i constantly strive towards simplification
and rationalization of the user experience, and the first thing i
noticed about the plasmoids was that they didn't improve my experience
in any relevant way, while taking up lots of space on my small 13"
laptop screen. <br>
<br></div><div></div><div>i
asked myself a simple question: what do i need on my desktop? what i
came to realize is that i could really use a desktop which acts as a
connection point between the hundreds of apps that live on my hard
drive. <br>
<br>current plasmoids act as discrete information bubbles (weather, rss,
im, social feeds etc..) and threy don't communicate with each other, which
in my opinion hampers their usefulness. in other words: what would
happen if KDE added a common backend to connect all the plasmoids (i'm
thinking of something similar to what elementary OS is doing with
contractor)?<br>
<br></div><div>imagine this scenario: i have a file manager plasmoid
open on my desktop, along with other ones. i want to share one of my
pictures to facebook. i drag and drop the picture from the file manager
plasmoid onto the "facebook feed" plasmoid, which in turn activates the
sharing feature, allowing me to add a caption, tag my friends and eventually share \
the picture.<br> <br>now imagine i want to turn the picture in b/w before sharing it: \
i just drag and drop the picture onto the "gimp" plasmoid, which shows me \
a preview of the picture and lets me select an action form a pool of
simple, predefined functions. once my picture is rendered, i just have
to drag it from the "gimp" plasmoid onto the "facebook" one to \
share it. <br>
<br></div><div>in these scenarios each plasmoid acts as a graphic frontend
that exposes some functions of the related programs, which don't even
need to be launched. it could be even possible to create predefined
sequences connecting different plasmoids (think of yahoo pipes, for
instance).<br>
<br></div><div>i don't know whether this is possible or not, but i believe it \
could be a massive leap forward for the KDE desktop \
paradigm.<br>***<br></div><div><br>thank you in advance for every comment, positive \
or negative.<br>
<br></div><div>regards,<br></div><div>MK<br></div></div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Plasma-devel mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Plasma-devel@kde.org" target="_blank">Plasma-devel@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel</a><br> \
<br></blockquote></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Hi,</div><div \
class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">First of all, i'm not a \
plasma developer so i can't really comment on your ideas from a plasma desktop \
point of view. I can on a technical point of view.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">What you describe as \
plasmoids talking to each other with the examples you provide isn't really \
talking to each other at all. It is just properly implementing drag/drop for all \
plasmoids. So for example, if you want to "drag" an image from your file \
browser to the "gimp" plasmoid then the "gimp" plasmoid would \
have to support dropping that specific image format. Furthermore if you want to \
manipulate that image on the gimp plasmoid and drag the results to facebook then it \
would have to support drag functionality as well. The facebook plasmoid would then \
have to accept a drop with that image type and handle it. That is not easy stuff to \
implement properly. In fact, in pure QML (which the new plasmoids for plasma 2 are) \
that only becomes possible in Qt 5.2. Now i think KDE had some custom drag/drop \
components that implemented the same support.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Then for plasmoids \
_really_ talking to each other. If that where to be implemented (which i doubt) then \
i guess it should work somewhat like this. Reusing your example here. Imagine you \
have a facebook plasmoid and you're using it. If you then move to a "file \
manager plasmoid" it should know that you came from the facebook plasmoid. If \
you then select and drag an image it could automatically pop up a "gimp" \
plasmoid to throw some fancy filters over your image. The gimp plasmoid (which then \
knows you came here from the file browser from facebook) should offer an option: \
"Publish to facebook" or something alike. That would be really plasmoids \
communicating with each other and would frankly be quite scarry :)</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Lastly how i use the \
plasmoids. I'm a developer so i have an interest in more then one console window. \
So i simply put a bunch of consoles on my desktop along with a CPU monitor. That \
works quite well, but only works if you have the screen room for it. It doesn't \
work on one screen since you just don't have the room to see the plasmoids and \
other windows. I have two screens so that's why it works for me that way.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Cheers,</div><div \
class="gmail_extra">Mark</div> </div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Plasma-devel mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Plasma-devel@kde.org" target="_blank">Plasma-devel@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel</a><br> \
<br></blockquote></div><br></div> \
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> Plasma-devel \
mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Plasma-devel@kde.org">Plasma-devel@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel</a><br> \
<br></blockquote></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Err, i actually don't \
think it would fit my need very much..</div><div class="gmail_extra">Lets take my \
developer example here.</div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">How would you make that more \
interactive?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">If you \
follow your example with a stock tracker then it kinda feels like logging \
functionality.. Not something special as an plasmoid that communicates with - lets \
say - kexi or some other excel application. And with the twitter profile, that can be \
done with data engines.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">In fact, i think all the \
stuff you want can be either implemented using data engines or (my preference) as a \
separate QML component.</div></div>
_______________________________________________
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
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