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List:       kde-panel-devel
Subject:    Re: User interaction problems
From:       Ryan Rix <ry () n ! rix ! si>
Date:       2011-05-02 5:46:50
Message-ID: 4064716.Pk52FoBJc7 () stinkpad
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On Sat 30 April 2011 14:36:02 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
> 
> > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Martin Gräßlin <mgraesslin@kde.org>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > On Saturday 30 April 2011 22:04:12 Ben Cooksley wrote:
> > > > OpenSUSE 11.3 (which KWin claims is insufficient
> > > > in terms of it's Mesa version) isn't even 9 months old.
> > > > 
> > > > Please take steps to improve the user experience.
> > > 
> > > And here we have a conflict of possibilities. Mesa developers want
> > > us
> > > to drop support for older drivers so that we can have a more secure
> > > way of checking the capabilities without getting broken by the
> > > drivers
> > > if they do changes. Now you ask us to improve the user experience by
> > > again relying on possibly broken checks. We cannot support old and
> > > modern drivers at the same time - at least it looks like that.
> > 
> > Note that I didn't ask for support for Mesa 7.9 or earlier. What I
> > asked for is that your configuration ui makes it explicit that
> > Compositing is unavailable due to Mesa being too old.
> 
> KWin has never provided information like that for cases like software
> rasterizer being used or crashers when activating KWin. In fact compositing
> is in all such cases possible through XRender. Some issues like e.g.
> Software Rasterizer being used or Mesa being outdated can only be
> discovered when actually using the driver and is by that not available to
> the config module.
> 
> Kwin could show a notification which does not help as the user would never
> be able to see it. And as explained in my previous mail users will not hit
> the problem: all modern distributions ship mesa 7.10 and we will
> communicate in the release note and also to the distributions that KWin
> requires Mesa 7.10.

Hmmm, that's unfortunate. Fedora 14 won't get kde-workspace 4.7 then, it looks 
like, since it's stuck on mesa 7.9 for the forseeable future. :( Six months != 
modern, I suppose...?

> > The only reason
> > I knew is because I grepped ~/.xsession-errors.
> 
> Which is totally fine as you are an experienced user.
> 
> > I know people do in-place upgrades of their KDE installations - they
> > will run right into this.
> 
> They won't. Either they are experienced and compile by themselves or use
> distro packages which will know about the increased requirement.
> 
> > > No current distribution is shipping less than Mesa 7.10 and the
> > > change
> > > is for KWin 4.7 which will be only used by either current
> > > distributions or the next distribution releases, e.g. OpenSUSE 12.0.
> > > 
> > > I am sorry to say that we are not able to fullfill your wish. It is
> > > unlikely that a "user" will face such an issue. We will clearly
> > > communicate in our release notes that KWin 4.7 will require Mesa
> > > 7.10.
> > > A developer has no problem with lack of notification as we print out
> > > a
> > > debug statement.
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > Martin
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Ben
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Plasma-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
-- 
Ryan Rix
== http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://rix.si/ ==
== http://rix.si/page/contact/ if you need a word         ==

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