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List:       kde-panel-devel
Subject:    Re: User interaction problems
From:       Martin =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E4=DFlin?= <mgraesslin () kde ! org>
Date:       2011-04-30 12:36:02
Message-ID: 1304166962.4020.2.camel () Nokia-N900-51-1
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----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 10:23 PM, Martin Gräßlin <mgraesslin@kde.org>
> wrote:
> > On Saturday 30 April 2011 22:04:12 Ben Cooksley wrote:
> > > OpenSUSE 11.3 (which KWin claims is insufficient
> > > in terms of it's Mesa version) isn't even 9 months old.
> > > 
> > > Please take steps to improve the user experience.
> > And here we have a conflict of possibilities. Mesa developers want us
> > to drop support for older drivers so that we can have a more secure
> > way of checking the capabilities without getting broken by the drivers
> > if they do changes. Now you ask us to improve the user experience by
> > again relying on possibly broken checks. We cannot support old and
> > modern drivers at the same time - at least it looks like that.
> 
> Note that I didn't ask for support for Mesa 7.9 or earlier. What I
> asked for is that your configuration ui makes it explicit that
> Compositing is unavailable due to Mesa being too old.
KWin has never provided information like that for cases like software rasterizer \
being used or crashers when activating KWin. In fact compositing is in all such cases \
possible through XRender. Some issues like e.g. Software Rasterizer being used or \
Mesa being outdated can only be discovered when actually using the driver and is by \
that not available to the config module.

Kwin could show a notification which does not help as the user would never be able to \
see it. And as explained in my previous mail users will not hit the problem: all \
modern distributions ship mesa 7.10 and we will communicate in the release note and \
also to the distributions that KWin requires Mesa 7.10. 
> The only reason
> I knew is because I grepped ~/.xsession-errors.
Which is totally fine as you are an experienced user.
> 
> I know people do in-place upgrades of their KDE installations - they
> will run right into this.
They won't. Either they are experienced and compile by themselves or use distro \
packages which will know about the increased requirement.
> 
> > 
> > No current distribution is shipping less than Mesa 7.10 and the change
> > is for KWin 4.7 which will be only used by either current
> > distributions or the next distribution releases, e.g. OpenSUSE 12.0.
> > 
> > I am sorry to say that we are not able to fullfill your wish. It is
> > unlikely that a "user" will face such an issue. We will clearly
> > communicate in our release notes that KWin 4.7 will require Mesa 7.10.
> > A developer has no problem with lack of notification as we print out a
> > debug statement.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Martin
> 
> Regards,
> Ben

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