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List: kde-panel-devel
Subject: Re: A usable plasma desktop
From: Steven <steven099 () gmail ! com>
Date: 2008-12-15 4:47:31
Message-ID: 12044e260812142047g17f60d09v4c2c1ed14a47cbe8 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Shoot! The title's supposed to be "Committing to a usable plasma desktop"! I
am very sorry.
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Steven <steven099@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you may have taken offense to the title. This was not intended as
> an insult. Let me explain why I chose it, and I'm sorry if any offense was
> taken.
>
> I am all for the concepts behind Plasma. I like the idea of organizing
> files, programs, and tools needed for a task in an activity for easy and
> logical access. (this is an oversimplification of one of the concepts, but
> if it is wrong, please correct me) However, I find that plasma is holding
> itself back by not committing to this.
>
> For example, its hard to organize the files on the desktop. You have to
> make the appropriate folders, make the appropriate folder views, then move
> the files into these folders (or onto the folder views) and then, if you
> want to also leave the file in the its original location so you can find it
> if you forget its on your desktop, one or the other has to be a link,
> meaning that you don't have full access to the file management tasks in one
> place or the other. If folder views could reduce their reliance on the file
> system, then setting this up could become a lot easier.
>
> Its things like this where Plasma is holding on to an old outdated metaphor
> that I think hold plasma back. Since my suggestion is to rethink how the
> plasma desktop metaphor is managed in order to remove its reliance on
> folders altogether, thus committing to the new metaphor, I thought this was
> the right name for the topic. Again, I apologize if I offended you.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Steven <steven099@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You misunderstood me and insulted me when I was simply making a suggestion
>> and looking for feedback. This is why many users feel alienated. My point
>> was that the reliance of the folder view on the traditional file system is a
>> hindrance, and that a second system, based on activities and logical
>> groupings might be better. My suggestion that this structure reside in the
>> Desktop directory, and that it be browsable with a file manager is simply
>> for interoperability with other desktop environments. Any method of
>> smoothing migration to (and from) KDE4 would be good idea, as well as not
>> breaking standards that, while outdated, are still being followed by the
>> majority of other DE's.
>>
>> I also would like you feedback on the other parts of my suggestion, which
>> would allow better interaction with the more liberal and logical structure
>> I'm suggesting.
>>
>> If I'm way off, that I ask that you suggest something else, as, at the
>> moment, there are unresolved useability bugs that need attention, as
>> evidenced by the number of people looking forward to the folder view desktop
>> as an alternative to the plasma desktop.
>>
>> My reply was originally going to be dripping with sarcasm as a retort to
>> your rudeness. However, as that would have done little to futher
>> constructive discussion, I chose not to. Please try to do the same yourself,
>> and not alienate your users.
>>
>>
>> 2008/12/14 Aaron J. Seigo <aseigo@kde.org>
>>
>>> On Sunday 14 December 2008, Steven wrote:
>>> > A few usability bugs (okay, maybe only one, but I like exaggeration as
>>> much
>>>
>>> oh, and let me just state that in deeply considering a shift in focus for
>>> 4.2,
>>> i was concerned that such drivel as this would be inspired by our work to
>>> provide compatibility with people preconceived notions of a desktop.
>>>
>>> do not take our work to humbly submit to those broken ideas as a
>>> ratification
>>> of the long-outdated concepts that inspired them some 25 years ago.
>>>
>>> that is simply to keep people OFF our backs and to allow people to move
>>> forward in a slow progression (as per my original statements some 2-3
>>> years
>>> ago on this matter), it isn't to trick us into falling back into the
>>> stupid
>>> mistakes of the last 15 years of client side computing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron J. Seigo
>>> humru othro a kohnu se
>>> GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
>>>
>>> KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Plasma-devel mailing list
>>> Plasma-devel@kde.org
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
>>>
>>>
>>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Shoot! The title's supposed to be "Committing to a usable plasma \
desktop"! I am very sorry.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 \
at 11:42 PM, Steven <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:steven099@gmail.com">steven099@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> \
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); \
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I think you may have taken offense to \
the title. This was not intended as an insult. Let me explain why I chose it, \
and I'm sorry if any offense was taken.<br> <br>I am all for the concepts behind \
Plasma. I like the idea of organizing files, programs, and tools needed for a task in \
an activity for easy and logical access. (this is an oversimplification of one of the \
concepts, but if it is wrong, please correct me) However, I find that plasma is \
holding itself back by not committing to this. <br>
<br>For example, its hard to organize the files on the desktop. You have to make the \
appropriate folders, make the appropriate folder views, then move the files into \
these folders (or onto the folder views) and then, if you want to also leave the file \
in the its original location so you can find it if you forget its on your desktop, \
one or the other has to be a link, meaning that you don't have full access to the \
file management tasks in one place or the other. If folder views could reduce their \
reliance on the file system, then setting this up could become a lot easier.<br>
<br>Its things like this where Plasma is holding on to an old outdated metaphor that \
I think hold plasma back. Since my suggestion is to rethink how the plasma desktop \
metaphor is managed in order to remove its reliance on folders altogether, thus \
committing to the new metaphor, I thought this was the right name for the topic. \
Again, I apologize if I offended you. <br> <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Steven <span \
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steven099@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">steven099@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
You misunderstood me and insulted me when I was simply making a suggestion and \
looking for feedback. This is why many users feel alienated. My point was that the \
reliance of the folder view on the traditional file system is a hindrance, and that a \
second system, based on activities and logical groupings might be better. My \
suggestion that this structure reside in the Desktop directory, and that it be \
browsable with a file manager is simply for interoperability with other desktop \
environments. Any method of smoothing migration to (and from) KDE4 would be good \
idea, as well as not breaking standards that, while outdated, are still being \
followed by the majority of other DE's. <br>
<br>I also would like you feedback on the other parts of my suggestion, which would \
allow better interaction with the more liberal and logical structure I'm \
suggesting.<br><br>If I'm way off, that I ask that you suggest something else, \
as, at the moment, there are unresolved useability bugs that need attention, as \
evidenced by the number of people looking forward to the folder view desktop as an \
alternative to the plasma desktop.<br>
<br>My reply was originally going to be dripping with sarcasm as a retort to your \
rudeness. However, as that would have done little to futher constructive discussion, \
I chose not to. Please try to do the same yourself, and not alienate your users.<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/12/14 Aaron J. Seigo <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:aseigo@kde.org" \
target="_blank">aseigo@kde.org</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div>
<div>On Sunday 14 December 2008, Steven wrote:<br>
</div><div>> A few usability bugs (okay, maybe only one, but I like exaggeration \
as much<br> <br>
</div>oh, and let me just state that in deeply considering a shift in focus for \
4.2,<br> i was concerned that such drivel as this would be inspired by our work \
to<br> provide compatibility with people preconceived notions of a desktop.<br>
<br>
do not take our work to humbly submit to those broken ideas as a ratification<br>
of the long-outdated concepts that inspired them some 25 years ago.<br>
<br>
that is simply to keep people OFF our backs and to allow people to move<br>
forward in a slow progression (as per my original statements some 2-3 years<br>
ago on this matter), it isn't to trick us into falling back into the stupid<br>
mistakes of the last 15 years of client side computing.<br>
<div><div></div><div><br>
--<br>
Aaron J. Seigo<br>
humru othro a kohnu se<br>
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43<br>
<br>
KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software<br>
<br>
</div></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Plasma-devel mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Plasma-devel@kde.org" target="_blank">Plasma-devel@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel</a><br> \
<br></blockquote></div><br> </blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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