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On Saturday 20 October 2007, Robert Knight wrote:
> > the layout should try to push other things out of the way - and then let
> > them go back when it shrinks.
>
> In Qt, layouting is a top-down process.  I don't know exactly how
> Kicker operates, but following the Qt pattern the system tray applet
> would inform its managing layout that its size constraints have
> changed

correct. however, for panels there are some additional and rather unique=20
requirements. namely, everything has to be visible and the panel itself can=
't=20
change size (well, it can if the user says it can, but it also has to deal=
=20
with hard constraints on the size as well). unlike in a dialog where every=
=20
widget is allowed to simply do whatever it wants, the panel must handle it'=
s=20
space cooperatively so that all the applets get an optimal presentation. it=
's=20
much easier when one can just expand infinitely, though that does lead to=20
annoyances like dialogs resizing due to contents or needing scrollbars in t=
he=20
control panel to ensure a rational window size is maintained.

in kicker, this led to making it so that applets could advertise themselves=
 as=20
expanding to full width. this played really badly with=20
expand-as-required-to-fit-contents panels: to expand and applet to "full=20
width" requires knowing what "full width" means, but if you are trying to=20
resize to the minimal size needed then you don't know yet what "full" means=
=2E=20
it leads to a catch 22 that is not very pleasant to solve and leads to=20
bizarre behaviour from the user's perspective.

there are other issues that come up, but that one is probably one of the=20
better examples.

> > of course, there would be spaces between applets if layouts had been do=
ne
> > according to my original suggestions. instead here we are fighting with
> > the exact problems i said would come.
>
> I remain unconvinced that your suggestion will work.

can you please provide an explanation for this POV, as i have done so (a fe=
w=20
times now) for the current layouting approach? i've given a concrete=20
suggestion here, i'd appreciate a concrete response. this really isn't one =
of=20
those things one has to see like artwork or visual effects to comment on.

> The normal thing=20
> to do in this case would be for you to create a branch of plasma in
> branches/work, implement the panel as you think it should be done.
> The rest of us can then check it out and if it meets the requirements,
> merge it back.

maybe it's just me, but this really struck me the wrong way and i'm left wi=
th=20
a bad taste in my mouth. i suppose it's because it feels like you're tellin=
g=20
me that i can no longer commit to my own code base, and this is not the fir=
st=20
time either. which is pretty ... unbelievable. i feel like there is a power=
=20
struggle going on here and i'm not quite sure the reason for it, but this=20
situation is having a negative impact on me, and i'd assume others. i'd lik=
e=20
to find a way to resolve it.

=2D-=20
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Trolltech

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