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List: kde-panel-devel
Subject: Re: [Panel-devel] Joining the team
From: Wade Olson <wadejolson () gmail ! com>
Date: 2005-08-25 21:42:52
Message-ID: a42b76705082514423d123ef5 () mail ! gmail ! com
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And the circular logic finally reaches its origin/destination....
First sentence on the website: "This is a wiki put up for the developers of
Plasma, the next generation desktop for KDE 4.0. We are using DokuWiki,
which is a standards compliant, simple to use
Wiki<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki>,
mainly aimed at creating documentation of any kind."
* "desktop for KDE 4.0"
* "creating documention of any kind"
How on earth could someone new to the project think that KDE 4.0 was needed
or they were free to create documentation based on perceived need? They'd
have to be insane.
From your announcement on 8/16:
"The site is currently pretty sparse, but that's where the users come
in :-) I started a little bit of my personal developer page showing
off some of my work on Extenders, and Aaron has been filling out the
news section as time permits, but it's really up to the community to
use this or not at this point. I, for one, hope we do!"
So people:
1) This wiki should only have content for contributors that have experience
on this new project that doesn't yet exist and are familiar with an
undocumented project.
2) Please write public documentation in accordance with private undocumented
conversations.
"the point of the wiki is not to inform new people, but to help developers
who are already familiar with the project work together." Ahhh KDE, where
99% of the projects beg for new blood, and the other 1% actively turn people
away.
As wiki administrator, I'd recommend that you place guidance on your
expectations for content and growth on the site itself. Posting stances on
this mailing fall into the very trap of: "tracking the progress of the
plethora of ideas revolving around Plasma has been somewhat troublesome, as
they are scattered throughout the usual channels (IRC,mailing list,
kde-artists forum)".
Regards,
Wade
On 8/25/05, Matt Broadstone <mbroadst@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 8/25/05, Wade Olson <wade@corefunction.com> wrote:
> > I agree.
> >
> > You must have been spying on me through my webcam
> (need...more...tinfoil)
> > as I updated about 10 wiki pages last night.
> >
> > Alas, it's 5:15 am now and I have to drive straight to a consulting
> > engagement in another state. But I will try to put in some of this
> > information later tonight.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Wade
> >
> >
> >
> > Vinay Khaitan wrote:
> > Don't you think, All of this should have gone to plasma Wiki ?
> > Well, I already though about contacting Aaron. I really feel,
> > manything is missing in plasma wiki for new developers. The wiki
> > should detail the process.
> >
> No it should not.. Aaron and I talked about this when I was first
> setting up the wiki. The wiki is not meant to be a place where you can
> find out how to get involved and get started, but instead a place
> where you can find lots of specific reference information on the
> internals of Plasma. For instance, this is the reason we have not
> posted instructions on setting up the kde4 environment on the wiki,
> information like this belongs on the main web page. A lot of wade's
> information is OK, but the point of the wiki is not to inform new
> people, but to help developers who are already familiar with the
> project work together.
>
> >
> > On 8/24/05, Wade Olson <wadejolson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Markus,
> >
> > Thanks for the email and welcome!
> >
> > I know that interest is booming for Plasma, which is turning into both a
> > blessing and a curse for Aaron. Hopefully with aKademy coming up
> shortly,
> > more information and immediate tasks will be forthcoming.
> >
> > In the interim, for people who are just joining this young project, can
> I
> > recommend:
> > * Give everyone a brief synopsis of your background
> (student/professional,
> > home country, software experience, KDE experience)
> > * List where you think you might fit in initially (and remember that not
> > everyone can just step in and do the fun work of drawing on a whiteboard
> and
> > having legions do their C++ bidding)
> > * Do your project homework. Learn as much about Plasma as you can from:
> > http://plasma.kde.org/cms/1086
> > http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/
> >
> >
> http://kde-artists.org/main/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,48/expv,0/board,5.0
> > http://appeal.kde.org/wiki/Appeal
> > http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/ssuperkaramba.html
> > (for historical reference)
> > Competitive analysis: Apple, MS, Gnome, 3rd party widgets
> > * Do your functional homework. For example, if you plan on helping with
> > usability, make sure you are familiar with sites like:
> > http://www.openusability.org/
> > http://www.kde.org/areas/guidelines/html/
> > (and many other interface guidelines...like apple.com <http://apple.com>'s
> work)
> > Or, if you plan on coding, of course you want to be familiar with:
> > http://developer.kde.org/
> > http://www.trolltech.com/developer/
> > http://qtdeveloper.net/
> > Any site that help with OOA/OOD/Design Patterns
> >
> > These simple steps can help others learn more about you, help Aaron
> > organize skill sets and person-power, and minimize initial delays due to
> > lack of preparation.
> >
> > No matter how people feel about software development bureaucracy, there
> are
> > very basic project planning and resourcing tasks that have to be
> coordinated
> > with such a large disparate group forming so quickly.
> >
> > Not only is Plasma going to be unbelievable, but it's really going to
> get
> > people to learn about more sophisticated programming techniques,
> usability
> > and various testing methodologies. I'd say this group is a microcosm of
> > what going to go on with KDE in general as it expreiences growing pains.
> >
> > So welcome, and hold tight while things get organized, but hopefully
> > there's plenty everyone can do in the meantime to sharpen their skills
> and
> > familiarity.
> >
> > Wade
> >
> > *Note: This email does not necessarily reflect the views of those that
> know
> > their head from their arse.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/24/05, Markus Hofmann <markus.hofmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > I want to join the plasma team too.
> >
> > For four weeks I read an interesting article about the plasma project
> > and I subscribed theailing list. With the help of Hans I got kde4
> > compiled on my computer.
> >
> > I don't have experience in QT programming but I'm interested to learn.
> >
> > I'm really motivated to help you.
> >
> > Greeting
> >
> > Markus
> > _______________________________________________
> > Panel-devel mailing list
> > Panel-devel@kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Panel-devel mailing list
> > Panel-devel@kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Panel-devel mailing list
> > Panel-devel@kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Panel-devel mailing list
> Panel-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
And the circular logic finally reaches its origin/destination....<br><br>
First sentence on the website: "This is a wiki put up for the developers of \
Plasma, the next generation desktop for KDE 4.0. We are using DokuWiki, which is a \
standards compliant, simple to use <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki" \
class="interwiki" target="_blank" title="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki" \
style="background-image: url(/wiki/lib/images/interwiki/wp.gif);" onclick="return \
svchk()" onkeypress="return svchk()"> Wiki</a>, mainly aimed at creating \
documentation of any kind."<br> <br>
* "desktop for KDE 4.0"<br>
* "creating documention of any kind"<br>
<br>
How on earth could someone new to the project think that KDE 4.0 was
needed or they were free to create documentation based on perceived
need? They'd have to be insane.<br>
<br>
From your announcement on 8/16:<br>
<br>
"The site is currently pretty sparse, but that's where the users come<br>
in :-) I started a little bit of my personal developer page showing<br>
off some of my work on Extenders, and Aaron has been filling out the<br>
news section as time permits, but it's really up to the community to<br>
use this or not at this point. I, for one, hope we do!"<br>
<br>
<br>
So people:<br>
1) This wiki should only have content for contributors that have
experience on this new project that doesn't yet exist and are familiar
with an undocumented project.<br>
2) Please write public documentation in accordance with private undocumented \
conversations.<br> <br>
"the point of the wiki is not to inform new people, but to help
developers who are already familiar with the project work
together." Ahhh KDE, where 99% of the projects beg for new blood,
and the other 1% actively turn people away.<br>
<br>
As wiki administrator, I'd recommend that you place guidance on your
expectations for content and growth on the site itself. Posting
stances on this mailing fall into the very trap of: "tracking the
progress of the plethora of ideas revolving around Plasma has been
somewhat troublesome, as they are scattered throughout the usual
channels (IRC,mailing list, kde-artists forum)".<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Wade<br>
<br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/25/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Matt \
Broadstone</b> <<a href="mailto:mbroadst@gmail.com">mbroadst@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> On 8/25/05, Wade Olson \
<<a href="mailto:wade@corefunction.com">wade@corefunction.com</a>> \
wrote:<br>> I agree.<br>><br>> You must have been \
spying on me through my webcam (need...more...tinfoil)<br>> as I updated about 10 \
wiki pages last night. <br>><br>> Alas, it's 5:15 am now and I have \
to drive straight to a consulting<br>> engagement in another state. But \
I will try to put in some of this<br>> information later \
tonight.<br>><br>> Thanks, \
<br>> Wade<br>><br>><br>><br>> Vinay Khaitan \
wrote:<br>> Don't you think, All of this should have gone to plasma \
Wiki ?<br>> Well, I already though about contacting Aaron. I really feel,<br>> \
manything is missing in plasma wiki for new developers. The wiki <br>> should \
detail the process.<br>><br>No it should not.. Aaron and I talked about this when \
I was first<br>setting up the wiki. The wiki is not meant to be a place where you \
can<br>find out how to get involved and get started, but instead a place <br>where \
you can find lots of specific reference information on the<br>internals of Plasma. \
For instance, this is the reason we have not<br>posted instructions on setting up the \
kde4 environment on the wiki,<br>information like this belongs on the main web page. \
A lot of wade's <br>information is OK, but the point of the wiki is not to inform \
new<br>people, but to help developers who are already familiar with the<br>project \
work together.<br><br>><br>> On 8/24/05, Wade Olson <<a \
href="mailto:wadejolson@gmail.com"> wadejolson@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br>><br>><br>> Hi \
Markus,<br>><br>> Thanks for the email and \
welcome!<br>><br>> I know that interest is booming for Plasma, which \
is turning into both a<br>> blessing and a curse for Aaron. Hopefully with aKademy \
coming up shortly, <br>> more information and immediate tasks will be \
forthcoming.<br>><br>> In the interim, for people who are just \
joining this young project, can I<br>> recommend:<br>> * Give \
everyone a brief synopsis of your background (student/professional, <br>> home \
country, software experience, KDE experience)<br>> * List where you \
think you might fit in initially (and remember that not<br>> everyone can just \
step in and do the fun work of drawing on a whiteboard and <br>> having legions do \
their C++ bidding)<br>> * Do your project homework. Learn as much about \
Plasma as you can from:<br>> <a \
href="http://plasma.kde.org/cms/1086">http://plasma.kde.org/cms/1086</a><br>>
<a href="http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/">http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/</a><br>><br>> \
<a href="http://kde-artists.org/main/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,48/expv,0/board,5 \
.0">http://kde-artists.org/main/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,48/expv,0/board,5.0 \
</a><br>> <a \
href="http://appeal.kde.org/wiki/Appeal">http://appeal.kde.org/wiki/Appeal</a><br>> <a \
href="http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/ssuperkaramba.html">http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/ssuperkaramba.html</a>
<br>> (for historical reference)<br>> Competitive analysis: Apple, \
MS, Gnome, 3rd party widgets<br>> * Do your functional homework. For \
example, if you plan on helping with<br>> usability, make sure you are familiar \
with sites like: <br>> <a \
href="http://www.openusability.org/">http://www.openusability.org/</a><br>> <a \
href="http://www.kde.org/areas/guidelines/html/">http://www.kde.org/areas/guidelines/html/</a><br>> (and \
many other interface guidelines...like <a href="http://apple.com">apple.com</a>'s \
work)<br>> Or, if you plan on coding, of course you want to be familiar \
with:<br>> <a \
href="http://developer.kde.org/">http://developer.kde.org/</a><br>> <a \
href="http://www.trolltech.com/developer/"> \
http://www.trolltech.com/developer/</a><br>> <a \
href="http://qtdeveloper.net/">http://qtdeveloper.net/</a><br>> Any \
site that help with OOA/OOD/Design Patterns<br>><br>> These simple \
steps can help others learn more about you, help Aaron <br>> organize skill sets \
and person-power, and minimize initial delays due to<br>> lack of \
preparation.<br>><br>> No matter how people feel about software \
development bureaucracy, there are<br>> very basic project planning and resourcing \
tasks that have to be coordinated <br>> with such a large disparate group forming \
so quickly.<br>><br>> Not only is Plasma going to be unbelievable, \
but it's really going to get<br>> people to learn about more sophisticated \
programming techniques, usability <br>> and various testing methodologies. I'd say \
this group is a microcosm of<br>> what going to go on with KDE in general as it \
expreiences growing pains.<br>><br>> So welcome, and hold tight \
while things get organized, but hopefully <br>> there's plenty everyone can do in \
the meantime to sharpen their skills and<br>> \
familiarity.<br>><br>> Wade<br>><br>> *Note: This \
email does not necessarily reflect the views of those that know<br> > their head \
from their arse.<br>><br>><br>><br>> On 8/24/05, Markus Hofmann <<a \
href="mailto:markus.hofmann@gmail.com">markus.hofmann@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br>><br>><br>> Hi everybody,<br>> <br>> I want to \
join the plasma team too.<br>><br>> For four weeks I read an interesting \
article about the plasma project<br>> and I subscribed theailing list. With the \
help of Hans I got kde4<br>> compiled on my computer. <br>><br>> I don't \
have experience in QT programming but I'm interested to learn.<br>><br>> I'm \
really motivated to help you.<br>><br>> Greeting<br>><br>> Markus<br>> \
_______________________________________________ <br>> Panel-devel mailing \
list<br>> <a href="mailto:Panel-devel@kde.org">Panel-devel@kde.org</a><br>> <a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel</a>
<br>><br>><br>><br>> \
_______________________________________________<br>> Panel-devel mailing \
list<br>> <a href="mailto:Panel-devel@kde.org">Panel-devel@kde.org</a><br>> <a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel"> \
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel</a><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> \
_______________________________________________<br>> Panel-devel mailing \
list<br>> <a href="mailto:Panel-devel@kde.org"> Panel-devel@kde.org</a><br>> <a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/ \
listinfo/panel-devel</a><br>><br>><br>><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Panel-devel mailing list<br><a \
href="mailto:Panel-devel@kde.org">Panel-devel@kde.org</a><br><a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel</a><br></blockquote>
</div><br>
_______________________________________________
Panel-devel mailing list
Panel-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
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