From kde-multimedia Sat Feb 22 21:00:51 2003 From: Stefan Westerfeld Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:00:51 +0000 To: kde-multimedia Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: aRts vs JACK X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-multimedia&m=104594772927245 Hi! On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 10:31:27PM +0100, Roger Larsson wrote: > Arnold Krille wrote: > > On Wednesday 19 February 2003 18:06, Jozef Kosoru wrote: > > > > > IMHO the only way to get rid of the artsd problems is forget about it. > > > The correct solution (I know that it's just sci-fi) is to 'rm -rf arts' > > > and write the necessary API for the KDE from the scratch. aRts was the > > > KDE project mistake but now is a bit too late to make such a drastic > > > rewrite. Even _if_ anybody comes to the conclusion, that aRts is a serious mistake for all of KDE (and I can understand some of the criticisms that aRts is constantly exposed to), there are two things to keep in mind: * developing aRts has taken years, we're currently having 80000 LOC in aRts, thus, developing a replacement is a huge effort * KDE keeps binary compatibility, thus during the KDE3 cycle, we guarantee that aRts is still there Thus I suggest taking an incremental path in any case. - if you favour GStreamer over aRts in the media framework sector, write a GStreamer PlayObject and thus show that noatun works better with it than with native aRts stuff - if you favour MAS over aRts, work alongside with those of us who want to make CSL a new abstraction layer for sound input/output, and thus enable KDE users to choose their sound server in the future - if you want apps to use JACK rather than aRts, make JACK aRts-aware or CSL-aware or the other way round > > I know aRts isn't the best, but isn't your 'solution' a bit to drastic? > > > > I do not think it is that drastic. Most usages of audio are contained in > simple wrapper classes (KNotify, KAudioPlayer) and in a low number of > programs. (most in kdemultimedia) > It can be done if we want to... > > But note that Arts handles video/network transparency/etc. too... Thats the problem. Somewhere in the archives there should be a mail on a proposed splitup of aRts. I identified three functionalities aRts currently covers: - media framework - sound server - synthesis/music/effects stuff Ideally, these could be seperated, and not bundled. But thats a lot of work, and I suggest that we start small (by employing CSL and/or adding JACK support) instead of trying to turn the world upside down in one day. > > Instead of complaining you could help Stefan Westerfeld & co. to write > > something new... > > The problem with arts as I see it is that it is quite difficult to get into, > since it is quite advanced and have lots of features. > > But also since there are code > that is not expected to be used (oggvorbis_artsplugin), > competing code (kdemultimedia/mpeglib/lib/oggvorbis > and arts/flow/gsl/gslloader-oggvorbis) > > So the question for those of you with crystal balls is "will Stefan & co. be > able to keep ahead of the rest". > > How to keep ahead: > * a jack host(!) in artsd (a client should be implemented too...) That would be great. > * use of LADSPA plugins in addition to arts own. I have some experimental LADSPA support code, and can tell anybody who wants to complete it the necessary steps to be done. > * update documentation That would also be great. I am merely a human being with limited time and resources (and I have other obligations than aRts), and the past has shown that I can't - maintain www.arts-project.org - build a documentation system alongside everything else I do. This is why the webpage is in a desolate state, and it _needs fixing_ badly. The same is true for the documentation. I try to compensate for this by answering all aRts related questions I get by personal e-mail as good as I can, but of course, this is not a guarantee, and much less a desirable state. So...: please, anybody instead of complaining pick one item you consider the most important, and do something. Cu... Stefan -- -* Stefan Westerfeld, stefan@space.twc.de (PGP!), Hamburg/Germany KDE Developer, project infos at http://space.twc.de/~stefan/kde *- _______________________________________________ kde-multimedia mailing list kde-multimedia@mail.kde.org http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-multimedia