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On Saturday February 22, 2003 08:38, Matthias Kretz wrote:
> On Friday 21 February 2003 22:27, Neil Stevens wrote:
> > Yes it will.  Right now, if a decoder crashes, the app has to just
> > restart arts.  If we move deocding in process, a crashed decoder
> > crashes the app. KNotify, konqueror (previews), noatun, kaboodle, and
> > most of kdeedu and kdegames, and more would become less stable if one
> > unreliable playobject existed.
>
> So you think crashing the soundserver is better than crashing an app?
> Wow.

Yes, I do.   A lot.  If the soundserver crashes, the app can restart it and 
very little actually happens to the user.  If the app crashes, it's a 
hassle for the user.

Therefore, the best solution for the user is to leave as much as possible 
artsd-side.

> We all know that code will be buggy, but the way it currently is it's
> hard for anyone who's not into aRts a little deeper to understand where
> the problem is, making reporting and fixing bugs a lot harder.

We're not getting the existing known crashes fixed fast enough that I'm 
interested in getting more crashes reported yet, actually.

For me, xine_artsplugin kills artsd whenever a video playobject is 
unloaded.  But right now it's manageable.  Under your plan I'd get a crash 
dialog every time I pressed stop in kaboodle.

> > > Well if forcing KDE users to have to use aRts and not be able to
> > > choose is a good thing to do... then you're probably right.
> >
> > Yes, KDE has to force its users to use certain libraries and services.
> >  We force X, we force Qt, we force unix, we force C++.
>
> And if would could change that you would rather keep it like it is?

Correct.  I would rather keep things as they are, than make a change merely 
for the sake of dropping a library.  I simply don't buy the argument that 
removing a dependency is inherently good in itself, especially in the case 
of aRts, when that dependency is maintained in KDE cvs according to KDE 
release schedules.

> > Forcing one more thing
> > doens't hurt.  We don't force you to run aRts after all.. we only
> > force you to use it if you want audio.
>
> But we don't have to. We have the chance of telling the user: use aRts
> and you're getting a lot of features, don't use aRts and you will use
> some of that but KDE is still able to make sounds... What's the matter
> with that. It's not "rm -rf arts"ing aRts or anything like it.

Nothing in KDE can play sounds without aRts, though, at all.  So we'd still 
have to have aRts!

- -- 
Neil Stevens - neil@qualityassistant.com
"Distinctions by race are so evil, so arbitrary and insidious that a
state bound to defend the equal protection of the laws must not allow
them in any public sphere." -- Thurgood Marshall
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