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List:       kde-multimedia
Subject:    Re: KDE/aRts strategy meeting
From:       Neil Stevens <neil () qualityassistant ! com>
Date:       2002-06-26 12:58:10
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On Wednesday June 26, 2002 05:34, Tim Jansen wrote:
> Some random and unordered points:

>  4. Since the last multimedia meeting I
> havent seen any progress that would suggest that there will be a
> competitive video framework in the next 2 years. The Xine system seems
> to work well and will make many users happy, without any doubt, but is
> not enough for many applications (i remember reading that the Xine guys
> want to overhaul the core for the next major xine release and it would
> be interesting to know what it planned though, possibly it is another
> contender)

I didn't see any interest in writing a framework for video editing at that 
last meeting.  If there had been interest, then we'd have heard from 
someone working on it by now...

> 1. The obvious problem with the current situation is that (unless I
> missed something) we're several man-years away from having a workable
> and competitive video framework for anything but playback.

... which is why we're an infinite number of man days, at present, from a 
video editing framework.  Nobody has volunteered to work on it.

> 3. My interest in a video framework is as a library user. I want to
> write a video codec that is integrated in some multiplexed, multi-codec
> format like AVI with minimum effort. And I want to write apps
> record&playback that video. I also want the perspective that there will
> be apps like video editors in the future that can use my codec without
> requiring me to port it first.

Then you know what?  Why don't you propose something that will make your 
life as a library user easier, and get the ball rolling with some coding 
to begin implementing it.

Don't just roll out the ball and say let's "talk."  Lay it on the line, say 
what you'd like to see....

> 2. You do not need to rewrite anything unless you need video
> capabilities.  Arts is ok for sound/music and does not even have
> competition in the synthi use case. It "only" lacks video capabilities. 

> 6. Writing a C++ wrapper for a C-based framework is always MUCH less
> work than writing a new framework

... and ideally, put these sentiment into practice, ensuring that Noatun 
and Kaboodle work unmodified...

> 5. Losing the benefits of C++ is relative. If I need to decide whether I
> want to write my media-related code in pure C, or spend the next years
> of my life writing and maintaining on a new C++-based video framework,
> it is quite obvious to me which solution is less pain.

... keeping in mind that you may not care about C++, but KDE is full of C++ 
coders who aren't going to hassle with a limited low-level language like 
C, nor waste time with an API that is C-like.  Unless your wrapper is a 
reasonably idiomatic C++ API that allows for extending and using the 
environment as fully as in C, you won't win converts from aRts.

> 7. There is at least one effort to create a media framework which is
> already very far. 

You mean aRts, or besides aRts?

> Given the amount of work that is neccessary to do
> something like this, duplicating their work sounds a little bit like
> writing a new kernel because Linux does not have a C++ API.

Well, then you don't have to help.  As for me, I'm not interested in trying 
to make the glib object model, aRts object model, and Qt object model all 
work together, so it *is* easier for me to just write what I need as I go.

Hm.. I think we might want to delay the meeting a little, so we can 
continue to lay the groundwork for it.
- -- 
Neil Stevens - neil@qualityassistant.com
"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding
because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they
have not a single political argument left." - Margaret Thatcher
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