On Monday 12 March 2001 11:43, David Faure wrote:
> On Monday 12 March 2001 16:37, Dave Leigh wrote:
> > On Monday 12 March 2001 08:39, David Faure wrote:
> > > On Monday 12 March 2001 13:27, Hetz Ben Hemo wrote:
> > >
> > > I certainly HATE it when this happens in MSOffice. When you know which
> > > font you want to use, this is possibly nice. But when you're just
> > > trying out a lot of fonts, you end up with a real mess !
> >
> > That's why StarOffice and WordPerfect now demonstrate the font in the
> > pulldown itself.  There is less need to haphazardly try out fonts. You
> > seem to be complaining about the mess that results from doing something
> > you shouldn't have HAD to do in the first place!  Your real complaint
> > should be that you can't tell what the font looks like until after you've
> > selected it. Solve your real problem, and the "last used" ordering
> > becomes a valuable tool.
>
> Hmm, and just how can you read "webdings" in webdings font ?
> This doesn't work - for all the fonts that contain symbols rather than
> readable characters.

Don't be so quick to dismiss an excellent idea.  Judging from your response, 
you probably have not used either of these products, and if so, have never 
selected a font.  I shall describe:

In WordPerfect 8 for Linux, when you open the fonts pulldown you also see a 
pop-up attached to the pulldown.  The *name* of the font in the pulldown is 
simply in Helvitica.  To the left of each font name is an icon denoting the 
type of font (printer font, Type 1, TrueType).  IN THE POPUP is a 
demonstration of the font that is currently selected in the pulldown.  The 
string displayed in this "demo box" is "AaBbYyZz".  That is Solution One, and 
it does work well.

In StarOffice 5.2, most font names are displayed in the font itself.  Symbol 
fonts (Zapf Dingbats, StarBats, StarMath, etc) have the name displayed in 
Helvitica, with the demonstration immediately following the name on the same 
line (no separate "demo box".  The string used for the demo is simply the 
letters A through J.  That is Solution Two, and it also does work well.

Both solutions are admirable.  I personally like WordPerfect's better, 
because some very ornate fonts are almost as difficult to read as WebDings.  
The point is, your *real* problem is solveable, and "last used" ordering can 
be a valuable tool.

> Any user interface that auto-modifies itself (such as those MS menus where
> items appear and disappear all the time, or this font list where items are
> not at the same place depending on whether you used them or not) is very
> bad IMO. You can be fast with a UI only if it stays the same as much as
> possible. When things start moving around, you lose time searching for
> them.

Not if the list of frequently used fonts is limited to a set number of 
entries; say four or five (which is sufficient for most purposes... if you 
use more than that regularly, you should run, not walk, to the bookstore and 
read "The Non-Designer's Type Book" by Robin Williams (not THAT Robin 
Williams)).  Given a fixed number of entries in the frequently used list, 
then all of the fonts below the seperator are always in the same positions, 
addressing your issue.

> This starts to be a kde-look like topic :)

Agreed.  I'm copying this message there.

For the benefit of KDE-Look list members, we're discussing adding a short 
list of "frequently used" fonts at the top of the font selection pulldown, 
seperated from the regular list of fonts by a line.

-- 
We give advice, but we cannot give the wisdom to profit by it.
		-- La Rochefoucauld