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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Improved document handling (Was: Goal-orientation (files vsdo cuments))
From:       "Steven D'Aprano" <dippy () mikka ! net ! au>
Date:       2000-03-09 14:44:06
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Rik Hemsley wrote about RCS:
> 
> #if Steven D'Aprano
[snip]
> > I can't imagine loading up a simple ASCII
> > text file with all this extra undo-information.
> 
> Well, try imagining it. 

Its hardly a simple text file with all that meta-data stored in it.

Still, I'm gradually coming around to your way of thinking. If its not
part of KDE, then we either leave it up to the file system itself, which
is not likely to happen, or leave it up to individual developers to
build it into their apps on an ad hoc basis.

> > There are exceptions, such as Microsoft's placing document summary 
> > info under the file menu where it doesn't belong, but since when 
> > has Microsoft ever done the right thing?
> 
> When the implemented the nice Undo feature in Word that I've just
> been looking at.

OK, so MS products don't always suck. Just mostly :-)

Actually, if I recall correctly, Word was the first Macintosh
application to implement Redo. I wish I could get my hands on a copy of
Nisus' word processor (sadly couldn't compete with Word, despite being
faster, less resource hungry, and more powerful, including full support
for grep). According to reviews at the time, it had absolutely awesome
undo/redo capabilities. Has anyone had experience with Nisus?

> BTW, I just had words with a Windows user. He uses Word and Excel
> mostly. He likes the idea of the RCS thing. He had a few 
> reservations until I explained a little, but he thinks it would 
> work.

Word97 includes an option for RCS-type information to be saved in the
file, complete with password protection so unauthorized users can't
delete previous versions. Dare I suggest this is also one of those
things that MS got right? (I don't know how strong their password
protection is, but I daresay you KDE programmers can make your security
Pretty Good.)

> One thing
> he enquired was 'Can I make a fresh copy, without revisions, so that
> I can send a smaller file to someone, and not have them see all the
> changes I made'. Of course, that would be simple :)

Excellent suggestion. A "compact" command perhaps? Or "Remove
revisions"?

Many commercial apps implement difference-saving (inc Illustrator and
Word). They do it for speed (Word even goes so far as to call it "Fast
Save") rather than for revision control. But there is a negative side to
this. The more differences are saved, the bigger and more complex the
file becomes, until in some cases the app cannot cope and can no longer
open the file.

Older versions of Word and Illustrator coped with this by periodically
saving the raw document without differences. I'm not sure what newer
versions do. Obviously this wouldn't work for a document using RCS, as
you would loose all revision data as well as compacting the file. Any
suggestions as to any way around this?

You could build a "version manager" that would allow the user to delete
certain revisions from the document but keep others. Or would that be
more trouble than its worth?

Hmmm. I think I'm definately starting to see some advantages to this
idea.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano

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