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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Kde-look pages.
From:       Peter Penz <peter.penz () jk ! uni-linz ! ac ! at>
Date:       1999-10-19 15:20:21
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Hi!

After I've read Waldos Page, which was made by the input of the
core-developers, I was impressed and disappointed at the same time. Many
improvements were made to the original page I made with Thomas, Derek
and many other people of kde-look. I like the additional examples and
implementation nodes, I also like many other changes...

But I think the changing of the mouse-behaviour is really terrible. On
the page is written: "On a system wide basis the user can decide whether
to use single-click behaviour or double-click behaviour. The default
behaviour is single-click behaviour. With single-click behaviour,
double-clicks are treated as a single single-click."

If you really can switch from SC to DC on a system-wide basis, than I
(!) will use DC. Great for me, but bad for others who want a PURE
SC-behaviour: it doesn't work that you use SC INSTEAD of DC without
saying a word about marking objects.

The current solution on KDE1.X is a bad mixture of SC and DC. On kfm
you've SC, but on a file-open-dialog you have DC (you can switch to SC
there, but only for folders). This is absolute inconsistent. The problem
is, that it's not possible to use SC everywhere, without changing the
applications *dramatically*.

Let's imagine there's really a system-wide switch between DC and SC.
Summary:
Double-Click-Behaviour:
- SC: marks object
- DC: executes default action

Single-Click-Behaviour:
- SC: executes default action (marks objects??? - if yes: when?).

We know there's no problem with consistency with DC (like proofed on a
Macintosh). But how do you mark objects with the SC-behaviour in a
consistent way for ALL applications? Saying "A SC executes the
default-action and sometimes markes an object" is the same as "Ctrl-C
makes a Copy and sometimes a Create". Is this consistent? Imagine a
FTP-client with SC, Netscape-Mail with SC... How do I mark if a SC fires
the default-action?  

Anyway: this was discussed on the lists very often and I don't want to
start the discussion again. I only wanted to say, that the current
solution is not consistent at all and proofs for me, that developers
shouldn't make USER-interface-guidelines ;-) 
 
> If we just would take care of *most* peoples needs/votings we would
> obviously
> stay with MS Windows ... that's why KDE is not developed by voting.
I agree: voting is no solution. But currently the solution on KDE with
Quit/Exit/Close and the mouse-behaviour isn't even as consistent as in
MS-Windows. Sad but true... The last years Microsoft spend a lot of time
in usability-tests and as Windows2000, Outlook-Express and IE5.0 shows,
success the success followed one year ago. I wish that KDE will have
better UI-guidelines as even the Mac has. With greatest respect to the
KDE-2-team, but I still think that developers shouldn't make
UI-guidelines without speaking with some UI-experts.  

Anyway: I'm happy that there is worked on the standards and that my work
and the work of many other people wasn't a waste of time.

Best wishes and still a KDE-fan,
Peter

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