[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: KDE Standards - Basic - Windows
From:       Waldo Bastian <bastian () suse ! de>
Date:       1999-09-22 16:17:12
[Download RAW message or body]

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Peter Penz wrote:

> > 1) File->Quit should terminate the application as perceived by the user.
> > (This is always the same as clicking the X on the main window border)
> > * For SDI this means, the mainwindow (only 1) should be closed as well as the
> > document inside it.
> We had exactly this in the guidelines one week ago. But we thought
> helper-windows (I don't mean the standard-documentation, I mean
> interactive helperwindows) or dialogs (e. g. change color) should be
> closed too, because they both are a kind of dialog and NOT a document,
> which make no sense without the document they refer...

Yes, of course. Mainwindow and all windows somehow associated with it.
 
> > 2) File->Close should mean "close file" or "close document" (or "close image", or whatever you have)
> Totally agree (some people think it should mean 'close window'...), but
> still I heard no reason, why we need a Close.
> 
> > After all this option is in the file menu. Close never quits the application.
> Agree.
> 
> > * For SDI this means that the document is closed but not the window. An empty window will
> > remain.
> Agree, but where's the sense (english?) of an empty window? We have a
> SINGLE-document-interface with NO document :-) The developer would have
> to inactivate all menus except File->new and File->open.

He has to do that anyway, because when the application is started manually, it will
not have any document loaded.

> Q: tell me one example, where you need to 'Close' a document (=> empty
> window) in a SDI and not closing the window...

It depends. I have made a drawing and want to throw it away to make a new one.
Or I have this document and want to start working on another document.
Currently 'open' replaces an existing document so this is not really needed, 
however when 'open' opens a document in a 'new' window, you need to have
a way to close an existing document to be able to replace it.

It is very much coupled to the behaviour of the 'open' function. Both variants are 
consistent but I think having an open which doesn't close an existing document
by default is more intuitive.

> > 3) Optionally a "Close window" option can be added to a menu (a window menu?). This is
> > _exactly_ the same as selecting "Close" from the WM-menu.
> > * In SDI this is equivalent to File->Quit.
> Two menu-entries for the same-action? Some developers will use Close,
> the others Quit... Doesn't sound consistent...

No... the application doesn't provide the WM-menu. It would be incomplete if the
application itself didn't had an option to close its windows. It's not really needed
badly, because usually the WM provides this functionality. If you have a "Window"
menu, (in MDI you will propably have) a 'Close Window' option would be approriate
here.
 
> > * in MDI this is equivalent to File->Close.
> So why a 'Close window'?
> 
> > 4) File->Open opens a new file/document/image without closing any existent document.
> > 
> > * In SDI the document is opened in the main-window if it is empty, or in a new one if the
> > window already contains a document.
> I see what you mean and why you want an empty window. But don't you
> think having no Close and no empty window leads to less confusion? I
> mean: you say "if the window is empty, 'open' does this, if the window
> has a document, 'open' does that" and "if the window is empty, 'new'
> does this, if the window has a document, 'new' does that".

No. New always opens a new empty window.

Open shows you the document you want to open. I have tried various options
in a test application of mine, and this behaviour is really straight forward and intuitive.

> For me it sounds to complicatet... We have the same functionality
> without the 'close'. Not even one more mouseclick is needed. 

If you want to open a second document you now have to create a new window
first before you can open the second document there. I think opening a second 
document is a very common action. 

> > * In MDI the document is opened in a new (child) window.
> Hmm... Ok.

Note also that with this approach there is no real difference in which menu options
to select in both the SDI and the MDI case. The effect might be slightly different due 
to the different nature of SDI vs MDI but in general it follows the intentions of the user.

Cheers,
Waldo

[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]