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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Copying the Windows interface
From:       Rik Hemsley <rik () rikkus ! demon ! co ! uk>
Date:       1999-08-29 16:19:15
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On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Marko Rosic wrote:

> Not some, philosophy is the similar, look is similar, you will agree with
> me that KDE is more Windows like than Window Maker, E, Black Box, After
> step...
> Fotunatly it can be rearanged to look more motif :)

Window Maker, E, BlackBox and AfterStep are all window managers. kwm, KDE's
window manager, is themable, and by default looks more like OS/2 than anything
else.

KDE itself looks like an X desktop, due to the Qt widget set emulating Motif.
You _can_ switch to Windows-alike widgets, but that's your option. Qt + KDE 2
by default use a MacOS-like look, though added to that is the possibility to
theme your widgets, so you can make widgets look how you like.

I'm sure you'll agree that it's sensible for us to ship with a fairly 'neutral'
widget theme. The Platinum (MacOS) style is attractive, simple, and easy on the
eye. If you want to design a new theme for KDE, using entirely original
widgets, be our guest !

> I see...
> But all the good features are announced for 2.0, when is it expected to
> come out?

When it's stable. Sometime in 2000.

> Why Kwin, what was wrong with previous name? Kwin is even more widows
> oriented...

KWin == Windows oriented ? Huh ? It means 'KDE window manager', just as 'kwm'
does. It's only got a different name because it's a different implementation.
No-one will see the name 'kwin' unless they look behind the scenes.

> I don't like colors of the icons, for eg MacOS2 theme and DrawingBoard
> theme have much nicer icons.

The MacOS and DrawingBoard icons are very nice, but they're themes (and illegal
themes at that, as they're too close to the originals where copyright is
concerned). KDE needs its own icon set that is visually appealing and easily
understandable. We also have to be consistent with the original 32x32x40 icon
set to allow users to understand what the new icons are. If you don't like the
KDE icons, feel free to draw your own set. If it accomplishes the same goals as
the set we've been working on the last few months, and looks better, I'm sure
we'll consider making it the default - at some point ! We can't just change the
icon set and hope users will understand immediately.

This is, of course, why themes exist. Make your own icon set and use it. Make
it available as a theme and other people will use it. Don't concern yourself
with the defaults. There are good reasons why things are the way they are. We
don't just draw icons to our own personal taste.

> Yes but also I have many other pixmap paths, for eg. I would like to use
> GNOME's pixmaps, so in this case I woul have to copy all of the icon,
> instead of making path to the directory, so now I have unnecesary doubled
> icons.

That's your problem, I'm afraid. You could simply symlink to the icons, of
course, but not many people are going to want to do this so we can't support
the minority case.

> I would like to have meny when i click on desktop, even win95 with diamond
> viper drivers have that :))

Then play with krootwm / kpanel. If enough people want it, and someone writes
the code, it'll possibly become an optional feature.

> And it is a normal stuff in all other WM's, second it would be usefull if
> I could menage meny like in win 98 trough drag'n drop, I addmit it is a
> good feature :)

Coming in KDE2.

> I don't use the personal submeny, and it think is unnecessary, You could
> make the whole meny to be per user personalized, so he can change its own
> look, but not to afect the others, that is also that way in other WM's
> exept in GNOME and KDE.

It is necessary because some of us have to have control over what our users are
doing. KDE is probably on more multiple-user setups than single user and having
a 'personal' menu isn't exactly show-stoppingly difficult for the single user.

> At the end I would like to have all of xscreensavers to run in/trough KDE.

The screensaver support in KDE 2 will be different. Get KDE 2, compile it, run
it, and see what you think.

Cheers,
Rik

-- 
KDE - Colour Outside The Lines - http://www.kde.org

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