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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Grey out scrollbar button when border reached?
From:       "Friedrich W. H. Kossebau" <Friedrich.W.H () Kossebau ! de>
Date:       2002-08-28 19:23:15
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Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:36, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
[snip]
> > Today it just struck me: Why is the corresponding scroll bar button
> > not simply greyed out when the view has reached the corresponding
> > end?
> 
> I think traditionally the button doesn't grey out because developers
> reason that the entire control should be in the same state -- either
> the scroll bar is enabled, or it is disabled, but not half enabled and
> half disabled.

I see. Would make sense as I really can't imagine to be the first one
with such an idea but all the UI I came across handled it in the same
way. And I even think they may be right... Perhaps instead of greying
the respective buttons might change the icon. To a square. 
Any other suggestions?
 
> I don't think that is really a problem, especially if you have
> double-directional arrows at both ends of the scroll bar.
> 
> [Aside: can anyone explain why KDE 2 added a double arrow (both up and
> down) to the bottom of scroll bars, but not to the top? Why just have
> an up arrow at the top?]

Perhaps as you always start with the view of the top. So the first
direction is down, and as you are once in the area with your mouse
cursor one might like it if he has quick access to an up button. But
this makes only sense when going in little steps... well, I found to
never use it myself. If I got it right it originates from the NextStep
UI. Perhaps they made some research on joe user ;)
 
> > Would be consistent with the rest of the user interface, and signal
> > whether you are or are not at the end of the view. I still have
> > trouble whether this would be acceptable from an aesthetic(word
> > surely mispelled, where is my dictionary) POV. But might be a
> > question of usage...
> >
> > What do you think?
> 
> I think its a good idea. From a UI perspective, it is more consistant.
> The user doesn't care that a scroll bar is one single control, and
> therefore is either enabled or disabled all at once. As far as the user
> cares, the up arrow doesn't work and should be disabled when you are at
> the top of a list, and the same for the down arrow at the bottom.
> 
> And while we are talking about scroll bars, can we make the minimum
> thumb-box size to be the same as the mouse pointer? It is really a pain
> to try to click on and drag the tiny thumb-box when you have a very
> large list.

Fully agreement in my room :) (ups, it is just me and two litte penguins
right now, do they count? ;)

Friedrich

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