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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Clipboard
From:       Dave Leigh <dave.leigh () cratchit ! org>
Date:       2002-08-07 6:06:28
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On Tuesday 06 August 2002 17:06, Aaron J. Seigo wrote something.

Friederich proposed a logical and reasonable improvement to the user 
interface, and offered it for discussion. At the time he made that proposal 
he did indeed cogently and clearly state the rationale behind it. A purpose 
of this forum is to discuss the pros and cons of such things.  

You, as well, have made a logical and reasonable argument. You have thought 
it out and argue it well. That you are dead wrong doesn't make your argument 
any less logical and reasonable. That you were evidently unaware that your 
assertions had already been tested historically and proven invalid is a 
simple demonstration of the value of experience. I'm sorry to see that you 
don't believe that extended experience is a measure of "anything," but from 
this perspective, the problems with its lack are apparent. ;)

> these are the assertions you and others here are making. i'm asking for
> proof that these icons actually do this. i'm not saying that if the icons
> are better they won't deliver anything useful, i'm asking "are these icons
> actually better"? personally, i don't think so, but there are ways to prove
> otherwise.
>
> if you choose to reply, please do so with an answer to my question.

The proposal had several aspects, the very least of which was the icons. 
Let's broaden the question to include the actual proposal: changed icons, 
changed button arrangement, and Klipper integration. 

Are these better? Yes, yes, and yes. Originally, I had some qualifications 
about this (I thought only the Klipper integration was better than marginal), 
but that was before I saved this to draft and did an impromptu survey earlier 
tonight. The new button arrangement and icons are significantly easier to 
explain to users, and that's where the training benefit lies. With Klipper 
integration there is a clear improvement, with strong benefits to established 
users while being clearly understandable to newbies. 

As for "proof," obviously no one's had time to do a formal study to quantify 
the improvement of this brand-new idea, but I've no doubt at all as to what 
it would show. I did do a little informal (and individual) training and 
survey of my wife and three children (ages 15, 6, and 6) tonight. Not at all 
scientific, but I did try to keep it objective. I presented it as a change, 
not an improvement, and asked for opinions afterward. All four users 
currently understand Cut, Copy, and Paste, and I taught all to use the 
computer in the first place. Experience with these functions ranges from a 
few months to eight years. Three of them use Windows. I called them in 
individually, not as a group. I began by asking them to identify the new 
icons without explanation and without showing them the original arrangement 
first. I gave them each 15 seconds. One of the four got them all right 
without explanation. The rest got two of the three icons right. Oddly enough, 
two of them got the 'Cut' and 'Paste' icons right... even though the 'Cut' 
icon had changed. Both of them (the twins) mis-identified 'Copy' as 'Put 
something on top of something else' even though *that* icon hadn't changed at 
all and they were able to correctly identify it in the old arrangement (which 
I asked them to do prior to explaining the new layout). In this case, they 
said the only reason they knew what it 'Copy' was because it was next to the 
scissors, and they knew that meant 'Cut.'

Now, in explaining the new arrangement I did not initially use the words, 
'Cut,' 'Copy,' or 'Paste.' To reinforce the association between action and 
icon I used the phrases, 'Move to Clipboard,' 'Copy to Clipboard,' and 'Get 
from Clipboard.' I explained that the little arrow meant there were more 
pages on the clipboard, and you could pull them down (demonstrating what it 
would look like with Klipper). After they understood the action and the icon 
association, I re-introduced them to the synonymous terms 'Cut,' 'Copy,' and 
'Paste' as 'short forms.' It took under three minutes to explain it whole new 
layout (including Klipper) to the twins and verify that they understood it, 
and something under two minutes to do the same with my oldest son and wife. I 
did not address animating the flow to/from the clipboard and document.

Survey time. One thing I learned was that the approach to explaining the 
icons was a big part of their understanding. Also, the twins surprised me: I 
thought they'd prefer the scissors.  
* All said they'd rather use the new layout. I asked why.
* All said that the new buttons 'make more sense.' The twins said they were 
"afraid" the scissors would "cut it [the selection] up," (same thing they'd 
told me earlier, even though they'd been told otherwise) but that moving it 
to the clipboard was "safer"
* Three thought the 'Move to Clipboard' action was better than 'Cut', but 
didn't have a problem with CALLING it 'Cut.' (I'm still trying to figure that 
one out.) The other understood that it was the exactly the same as 'Cut' 
* The same three thought that the 'Copy to Clipboard' icon was more 
understandable than Copy, even though it's exactly the same icon in a new 
position! 
* None said they'd have a problem without the scissors (which, BTW, is the 
only icon that actually changes enough to be considered a changed icon rather 
than a changed rendering)
* All preferred the paper-as-indicator on the Clipboard icon, which is one 
part I thought would cause problems. They liked it better than greying the 
icon out, 
* None had a problem with the concept of multiple sheets on a clipboard, 
although the twins thought it would be better to see the pages. They don't 
type much, and use cut and paste mostly in a paint program.

At this point, I personally don't need further proof: I like it, my family 
likes it, and "the people on this list don't matter squat" (I read that 
somewhere). Seriously, go do your own test.

PS: I did my best, but I couldn't resist this one:

> it applies to the actual icons as well. people do rely on the icon shape to
> navigate.

Everybody but you, that is. We've already established that you "use it w/out 
even looking at it ("by touch")"

(Yes, I know you were speaking figuratively, but as I said, it was too good 
to resist. BTW, I HOPE you can figure out which statements are 
tongue-in-cheek, as I rarely label them. Here's a guide: I attack ideas, not 
people.)

-- 
Dave Leigh, Consulting Systems Analyst
Cratchit.org
  http://www.cratchit.org
  864-427-7008 (direct)
  AIM or Yahoo!: leighdf
  MSN: leighdf29379@hotmail.com
  ICQ: 37839381

Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy.
		-- Han Solo

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