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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Clipboard
From:       "Friedrich W. H. Kossebau" <Friedrich.W.H () Kossebau ! de>
Date:       2002-08-05 0:04:42
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Hi Mr. D'Aprano!

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> On Mon,  5 Aug 2002 00:58, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> 
> > 1. Both actions "copy" and "cut" have in common the adding of
> > something to the clipboard. Thus they both have an element that shows
> > the adding: the moving paper. The difference is quite obvious shown:
> > copy leaves the original, cut leaves an empty place. Seems more
> > obvious to me than a scissor and the doubled paper (haven't tested
> > for small sizes like 16x16, though).
> 
> The new-page-with-empty-place looks like a page moving. Its not obvious
> that it means "cut", but then 90% of icons also have a non-obvious
> meaning. I don't think your icon is any worse that the scissors icon.

The problem may be that some symbols show the analogues (real world)
tool of an action, others the result or the process itself. What serves
best might be either personal preference, problem related or (I vote
for) object for needed further investigations. Or simply needs a
standard. 
Here the page is a metapher for "content", so the moving paper shows the
process of the action that "moves" the (selected) content somewhere. Of
course you have to know that a) the action only acts on the selection
and b) the target is the clipboard. 
 
> > 2. Look at the old copy symbol. The new paper moves to the left. But
> > the clipboard symbol is usually at the right. Now I think it makes
> > more sense if the cutted/copied paper moves in the direction of the
> > clipboard symbol.
> 
> I don't think the direction really makes that much difference. I've
> always seen the traditional icon as the front paper being the original,
> with the copy being dragged off from underneath and towards the bottom
> right. That's probably because English speakers write towards the
> bottom right.

Speakers speak, don't write, otherwise they would be writer, or am I
wrong? Just kidding <:O) Let me guess: you are left-handed, are you?
Because I am right-handed, and would never ever use the right hand to
move papers when writing (but that only because my pen leaks, so my
right hand is always dirty ;)
 
> Personally, I think the copy icon should have the original page, with
> the copy above it, offset to the right and down, regardless of the
> position of the paste icon.

For the record: A problem is that the dog's ear, which seems to be
needed to mark the paper, is at the top right, and this restricts the
possible positions of the papers if the resulting symbol should remain
understandable. 

> > 3. I placed one action to the right, the other to the left of the
> > clipboard symbol. Maybe this placement makes it easier to associate
> > the action also with the place. This way you can already start to
> > move your mouse cursor into the direction of the clipboard symbol
> > while remembering what is where. Arrived at the position of the
> > clibboard symbol a simple move to the left or to the right will reach
> > your aim.
> 
> There is no difference between remembering the position of three icons
> Cut-Copy-Paste and Cut-Paste-Copy. Worse, by re-ordering the icons, you
> weaken the association with the Cut-Copy-Paste menus.

For me it is... I tried it. 
 
> > 5. I am not sure about this: Wouldn't it make more sense if the
> > clipboard is not greyed out if no content is available but shows the
> > status by an empty clipboard? The clipboard could be greyed out if
> > inserting is not possible, like in readonly mode.
> 
> Show a greyed-out empty clipboard if there is nothing to paste, and a
> greyed-out full clipboard if there is something to paste but nowhere to
> paste it.
> 
> One final comment: in your sample gif, the paste icon is animated. This
> is not a good idea. I can hardly wait to hear what Sean will say,
> although now that I've pre-empted him he will probably make a liar of
> me but saying that he likes it.

Pardon, should have commented the samples: the one showing my proposal
should represent different states, not an animated symbol :)

> Overall, you have some good ideas which are worth working on.

As always it lacks the coder... if it even was to show the
disadvantages. :(

Friedrich


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