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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Having Konqueror/kDesktop displaying media volume label
From:       Dave Leigh <dave.leigh () cratchit ! org>
Date:       2002-04-20 18:55:11
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On Saturday 20 April 2002 11:49, Sven Niedner wrote:
> On Saturday 20 April 2002 16:26, Dave Leigh wrote:
> > I think this is fine for a default, but I would allow superusers to
> > mount globally. The reason is that I've needed to mount disks
> > (particularly CD-ROMs or ZIP disks) that will need to be accessed by
> > a workgroup. You need this flexibility, *especially* in a multiuser
> > environment.
>
> OK, this is a valid point, but I think this should be addressed in a GUI
> independent fashion. In such multiuser environments, people have the
> tendecy to ssh to a machine, and there they cannot use the fancy
> ioslaves, etc. I am quite shure that such a solution could be created

Who needs fancy ioslaves? For example, my proposed workaround *IS* 
GUI-independent. You can create a link to a script as easily in GNOME as in 
KDE, and you can call it from the command line. AND it works whether or not 
there's an automounter present.

> by wrapping some scripts around the automounter, and the question
> remains: What happens, if a user acceses such a directory, and the
> medium is not present? I had nightmares with NFS volumes on an
> unreachable server, and hanging processes you could not even kill, and
> we do not want to recreate that problem.

You don't have to wonder about it... you can find out exactly what happens by 
mounting a disk in your floppy drive, then removing the disk. It will pretend 
that the disk is there for a while, but your changes will be lost. Eventually 
the automounter will remove the mount and you're left with an empty mount 
point. HOWEVER, in the case of a CD-ROM or an Iomega drive, you simply can't 
eject the media while the volume is in use unless you physically stick a 
paperclip in the drive. You MUST unmount first, then eject. This is actually 
a hardware problem re: PC floppies. Mac floppies don't share the problem.

> I think the real problem is that UNIX was not build with removable media
> in mind, neiter with users that actually need hardware access. The
> whole filesystem management is centered around the system
> administrator.

I don't agree 100%. Yes, things are centered around the SysAdmin, but 
sufficient permissions can be granted to allow users to mount removeable 
media. Except where prevented by shoddy hardware design, safeguards are in 
place to prevent mounted media from being removed. 

But let's think about it realistically for a minute. If you're talking about 
a multiuser shop with a server room, etc. such as I've typically worked at, a 
user is simply not going to hop on down there, stick a disk in the server, 
and trudge on back to his PC. He doesn't have physical access to the machine. 
In this case it's about the user ACCESSING media that's been placed there for 
him, and this is a managed thing. The SysAdmin simply ISN'T going to let you 
access the floppy on that server, but you might be allowed access to larger 
removeable media. In my view there's absolutely nothing wrong with allowing 
users an alternative path to the same mounted data, and making that available 
globally, though /mount/named/, or wherever and there's nothing wrong with 
letting the SysAdmin set up the alternative mount with a single mouseclick on 
his desktop. These media can't be ejected until no longer used. So I don't 
think your fears about the media being surreptitiously removed in this 
environment are well-founded. It's just not an issue.

In a single-user environment or one like my home network where I've got about 
4 people on a half-dozen machines it's not an issue either. In this case 
you've got physical access to the drive, but again, CDs and Iomega disks 
can't be ejected unless everyone lets go of the resource. Floppies are used 
and removed, and you can physically see what people are doing. 

What kind of access they've got and what ioslaves are available have nothing 
to do with it, or shouldn't if you've got the right design. If those ARE 
issues, then you've got the wrong design. People will use a script 
instead because it's better. And nobody needs the embarrassment of having his 
wonderful design one-upped by a script.

The ONLY REALLY BIG ISSUE I see exists in any environment, and that is simply 
this: 
	What do you do with two disks having the same volume label?
	How did the Amiga solve this? Anybody know?


-- 
Dave Leigh, Consulting Systems Analyst
Cratchit.org
  http://www.cratchit.org
  864-427-7008 (direct)
  AIM or Yahoo!: leighdf
  MSN: leighdf29379@hotmail.com
  ICQ: 37839381

There appears to be irrefutable evidence that the mere fact of overcrowding
induces violence.
		-- Harvey Wheeler

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