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List: kde-licensing
Subject: HTML posting but still readeble on text clients
From: Kevin Forge <forgeltd () usa ! net>
Date: 1998-08-26 10:46:34
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<TITLE>The KDE Gnome FlameWare part 2
Writen by Kevin Forge
</TITLE>
<CENTER><h1>KDE and Gnome</H1></CENTER>
<HR WIDTH="350%>
There have in my memory been only a very few threads on <A
HREF="HTTP://slashdot.org">SlashDot</A> that logged over 150 comments.
Only
one wasn't about <A HREF="http://www.kde.org">KDE</A> and <A
HREF="http://www.gnome.org">Gnome</A> ( The Article by Bill Gates in the
Economist ). <P> With so many comments I figure we all know what is
wrong and
even those of us who have chosen a side understand why the other side is
not
simply irrational ( I hope :).
<P>
What I propose to write therefore is not an assessment of licenses,
technical merit, relative feature set, stability or heaven forbid
religious persuasion. Here I present a listing of solutions that should
be of use to anyone who wants the advancement of <A
HREF="HTTP://www.linux.org">Linux</A>, <A
HREF="http://www.gnu.org">GNU</A>,
<A HREF="http://www.opensource.org">Open Source</A> software, or the
many other
ideals popular on SlashDot. <P> <B>1 : They will both be around for a
long
time.</B> <P> Let's face it, 3 of the Top 5 distributions ship KDE as
default
now. The other 2 will not ship only Gnome (when it's ready). With this
in
mind we can expect them to both remain with us. To make maters worse,
Gnome is not a clone of KDE. Sure it was started to become a
replacement, but it's developers decided there were many things the KDE
team has not done in the best possible way and they are doing them
differently. In the end this will simply mean that those users who like
the KDE way will never use Gnome.
<P>
<B>2 : It's all about choice</B>
<P>
Experience has shown that Linux users demand the right to choose what
they will use. Sure we mostly prefer free software, however we will use
the best program for the Job. As an example for a very long time
<A HREF="http://www.netscape.com">Netscape</A> has been the #1 Browser
banging
on Linux sites. This started long before Netscape released source and
was
indicative of a single fact. It was the most capable browser by a wide
margin.
<P>
People won't use Gnome just because it's freer than KDE regardless of
the amount of FUD. They will use it, if for what they do it is
*better*. It is of course up to each user to decide what the word
"better" means. My guess is neither desktop will be adequate for all
users. Indeed some have already said that the completed one comes
nowhere close to what they want and the Alpha one doesn't look like it
will be more suitable.
<P>
Even in these early stages many users run pieces of both Desktops. This
is a trend that will grow as Gnome becomes more stable and KDE becomes
more modularized ( Real word, honest :).
<P>
<B>3 : Division is OK, It's incompatibility that will kill you.</B>
<P>
Yep. It doesn't mater so much weather your desktop comes from <A
HREF="http://www.redhat.com">RedHat</A> or <A
HREF="http://www.suse.de">S.u.S.E,</A> It doesn't mater weather it looks
like
<A HREF="http://www.winfiles.com">Windows</A> or the Workplace shell.
In fact
it doesn't even mater weather the Control panel can be positioned
diagonally
from the top left hand corner. What dose count is weather APPs will be
able to
make full use of the desktop that is currently active. This means Drag
and
Drop as a primary concern. Corba and Internationalization are also
important.
For the uninitiated "Internationalization" means your whole Desktop
environment can be switched to any of around 25 languages ( Limited only
by
people to translate ) with a menu selection or by hacking a text file.
"Drag
and Drop" means you can haul a text file from the file manager and drop
it
onto the editor to read it. "Corba" is a little more complex (more
like a
lot) and lets apps do a lot more things together.
<P>
What can hurt Linux is if an app that is written for it will be more
integrated on one desktop than the other. This would mean developers
are forced to choose one or the other. In real life that means users
will choose the set of apps they need then pick whichever desktop gives
best functionality to the more critical of the lot. It is this choice
that we shuldn't have to make. With this choice it will be like having
2 mostly similar operating systems to choose from. Dose anybody know
the word "fragmentation" ?
<P>
<B>4 : What about QT ?</B>
<P>
Let's face facts. The <A HREF="http://www.troll.no">Trolls</A> have
gone as
far as they will ever go in support of free Software. They are not
going to
BSD or L/GPL QT unless they either find so many other sources of money
that it
isn't important or they go out of business completely. Both are
unlikely when
you have what is from all accounts a marketable product.
<P>
Commercial developers (who some want and others don't) won't care so
much about QT and GTK from a licensing perspective. They will look at
the total cost of getting the job out the door and if using GTK means 48
weeks work while using QT means 45 then QT is cheaper. This is why most
still use Motif when the far less expensive QT is available. Programers
are quicker when using what they know. GTK on the other hand lets them
produce a fully working commercial app before laying out a dime in hard
cash.
<P>
Will the use of QT ever become a practical problem ? Probably not.
(Note : I said "practical") For many it is already a moral problem.
for the developers who use it there doesn't seam to be a major problem.
Whatever functionality QT doesn't provide or provides inadequately but
they need they write a KDE widget to do it. As for replacing the parts
of QT that they do use there is the Harmony project. A recent editorial
compared this project to LessTiff and Wine and claimed it would be
unlikely to go farther than those 2 have. This is just not true. You
see there are several major differences to the approach the Harmony team
has taken.
<P>
<B><I>#1</B></I> is they are working with something that is clearly
documented. I.e. Those things they have tried work as expected.
<P>
<B><I>#2</B></I> They aren't doing the whole QT. they are just doing
the
sections used by KDE and not necessarily all of that either. The KDE
team are
replacing QWidgets with Kwidgets in some instances.
<P>
<B><I>#3</B></I> They are doing a different product. QT doesn't do
Multithreaded but Harmony is being built with that in mind.
<P>
<B><I>#4</B></I> They won't get sued. The reason is simple #2 and #3
mean
that Troll Tech can't win the case. My advise ? If they ever sue take
it to a
British court because in England the Looser pays the lawyers and other
costs on both sides.
<P>
<B>5 : What of the future.</B>
<P>
Well for several years now the Linux user base has been doubling
annually (estimates of course). There have been many reports of people
converting newbies simply by presenting them with a KDE desktop that
gave them the warm and fuzzys. What this means is that by the end of
the century many Linux users will have started out with KDE (around 14
Million of the 37 Million by my guestimate which is a unfounded as
anyone else's:).
<P>
Are you going to sit there and tell these people KDE is not a part of
the Linux OS, or that they shouldn't be using it? I know I'm too busy
to talk to a stone wall.
<P>
<B>6 : Can there be a peace between us ?</B>
<P>
Of course. This isn't Independence Day ( the Will Smith movie ). There
are however several things that need to be done by the various people
involved.
<P>
<B><I>#1</B></I> The developers on both sides need to use the KDE-Gnome
& Gnome-KDE
lists. They need to get some traffic going across it even if it's just
friendly
chatter or mindless flames.
<P>
<B><I>#2</B></I> They should be using the same Corba ( They already do
).
<P>
<B><I>#3</B></I> They should be using the same DnD protocol ( KDE is
switching to one written by a gentleman who is on the Gnome team )
<P>
<B><I>#4</B></I> They should address look and feel standards. ( Not as
important as you would think except where keyboard shortcuts are
concerned. ).
<P>
<B><I>#5</B></I> The rest of us should stop the License bickering. (
Fat
chance of that in this lifetime )
<P>
<B><I>#6</B></I> People should help the harmony project. (Of course we
would
rather tear down a granite mountain {KDE} rather than build a brick
house
{Harmony})
<P>
<B><I>#7</B></I> We should stop insulting the developers for the choices
they
make. The "stupid people" in the KDE project built a nice desktop in
under 2
years. and The "Religious zealots" of the Gnome project aren't so
religious from what I see. (The followers on both sides are a whole
different mater).
<P>
<B><I>#8</B></I> We should stop harassing the users for the choices they
make. "Can't you see that integrated desktop is a Windows 95 rip-off
and eats
too many CPU cycles and too much RAM? Just ditch the stupid thing and
use
FVWM95 or Enlightenment {with a 24 bit Star Trek theme} like I do"
<P>
<B><I>#9</B></I> The developers should *talk* to each other rather than
simply doing strange things. ( That whole Kimp/KGimp fiasco didn't
need to
happen at all and would have been averted if at any stage the developers
chose
to communicate with each other )
<P>
<B><I>#10</B></I> People with limited knowledge of unix performance
should
refrain from talking about memory usage, speed etc... "With shared
libraries 5
megs and 8 megs can add up to 9 megs total"
<P>
<B><I>#11</B></I> We should try to present a more united face ( Nothing
has
cut as deep as reading Alan Cox's statement that Linus was tricked into
saying
"He who writes the code gets to choose the license and nobody gets to
complain". Lets face it. These men are the heart of our community.
It's one thing when the heart and the soul are in disagreement {RMS vs
Linus} It's a whole different mater when 2 parts of the heart even give
the merest hint of disagreement over none technical issues. )
<P>
<B>7 : Who do we fight now ?</B>
<P>
One good thing about being the underdog is you know who your <A
HREF="http://www.zdnet.com">enemies</A> are. most people honestly
expect you
to go down and as such align themselves with what they see as the
eventual
winner. This means we can see the Linux haters very boldly and
prominently.
Mostly we have to do nothing extravagant or bold to crush some FUD. We
simply
have to identify the lies and fix the real problems people have found.
<P>
Read the Linux Advocacy HOWTO and help out with whatever project grabs
your attention. Or start something to fill in the gaps where there is
no Linux program for a task or the available apps are inferior.
Remember GPL means you can grab orphaned code off sunsite and add it to
the next generation foo. This is a "Good Thing".
<P>
<B>8 : The fine print.</B>
<P>
<FONT SIZE = "-1">
"Linux" is a Trademark of Linus Turvalds. "Good Thing" is a Trademark
of RMS.
--
"So let me get this straight," one IBM lawyer said.
"We're doing a deal with . . . a Web site?"
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/98/0810/6209094a.htm For context.
mailto:forgeltd@usa.net http://www.independence.seul.org
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