From kde-kimageshop Wed Feb 21 23:29:53 2024 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Tymon_D=C4=85browski?= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 23:29:53 +0000 To: kde-kimageshop Subject: Re: Brainstorming potential improvements to driving Krita Dev Fund participation. Message-Id: X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-kimageshop&m=170855811932277 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--00000000000019ab600611ecb593" --00000000000019ab600611ecb593 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poor timing, but in my defense, I started this mail way before the AI discussion started... won't say sorry for length though, because I think it's important stuff. ##################### Emmet's initial email ######################### *Ad 1) and 5) Tiers and tier pictures* I like the concept, I only have the complaint that the tiers are very USA-centric. For example, in my country coffee for $5 would be considered a luxury spending. A better comparison would be kebab (and it's a really good size, for me a whole day of eating :D or just normal dinner for one young man). I like the idea about pictures for the tiers. I think that it would be even better than writing it down, because then supporters won't question the exact amounts, because no one expects the illustration to be 100% correct. Tiers being compared to real life spending would anchor the amount in the supporter's mind, so making the decision how much they want to spend on Krita should be easier. Money is pretty abstract, and people do tend to overthink spending small amounts and underthink big amounts when it's all one decision, especially online, so that should help make the value/amount more realistic, in a way. *2) Milestones and goals in the Fund:* I don't know the psychology behind it, but it sounds fine to me. Except that the Fund is currently at ~2800, so we'd need a new milestone at $5000, or calculate all of them again. *3) Roadmap:* I think it would be good to have two roadmaps, one for 2024 (what we'll be discussing on Monday, I guess?), and one, more informal, "what we want to do in Krita in the future", our dreams and desires, things that we could do if we had more funding. That might encourage people to fund Krita, because they'll see what they can gain from it. Likewise, we need to keep doing the yearly summary, because that shows users what they already gained, and proves that we are doing things for the money they gave us. Might be a good idea to kind of link it together, for example adding a link to last year's summary and roadmaps in the next year's roadmap, or do both at once, etc. *4) Fund-first, showing widgets:* I agree with things like adding widgets showing the goal and the current state of the fund in various places (on the website and in the application). I do think that maybe we're not clear enough that we need users to donate. And on Steam, many of the comments state that they're doing it to support Krita. So yes, promoting the Fund as *the* best way to support Krita and making sure our users understand that would be good. However on the other hand, Steam is the thing that gives us money right now, and we shouldn't neglect that. Below, I'll write some suggestions for the Steam page. *6) Corporate sponsors:* I have nothing to say about that. I don't know enough. Though from the sudden jump in donations, I suspect maybe some corporate sponsor stopped supporting us? This kind of jump is not great to have, but I don't know what we could possibly do about that. I think we just need to make sure that we charge an appropriate amount for the work we do. Sure, I kind of half-volunteer for Krita, but I wouldn't want to work for half-pay for some corporation. So we should charge normal amounts, how usual companies charge for developers' time, not our actual costs. Plus overhead and some profit, obviously. We can't sell ourselves cheap. That's all. ###################### Halla's email ######################### > I really need help with managing the fund.krita.org website at least! What does that entail? ###################### My topics ######################### *7) Steam page optimization.* I've watched some videos about that, and sure, they are usually about games, but they still have some good points that I believe apply to Krita as well. They won't help with people who know what Krita is, but hopefully they can guide people who don't know what Krita is, but are looking for an art software on Steam (as in, organic Steam purchases instead of just Krita's users supporting us there). - there are only a few tags (which makes it harder to find) out of the allowed 20 - no trailer (people like to click through it to see the gameplay, or in Krita's case, to see the tools) - could be just clips of Ramon or David painting in Krita - we could ask Ramon to make it, though then I'd like to talk to him exactly how to make it and what to show, because it's different than yt videos - no gifs, or even pictures, in the description - the screenshots mostly just show the pictures you can make in Krita, there are no tools shown - the thumbnail, especially the smaller variants, never tell what Krita is or how good it is. If someone doesn't know Krita, they might think it's an anime visual novel. Imho splash screen and Steam capsule have different purposes. Users see a splash screen when they open a program they downloaded because they already know what it is (or it's a website background etc.); Steam capsule is shown on listings, and it should show that Krita is a painting software, because people browsing Steam might not know about it. Basically, looking at the current Steam page, a potential user won't know how good it is: the Description says it is good, but come on, who'd read a Description without pictures? And there is no evidence of the advanced tools on the screenshots (I mean there is some, but I think I'd like a bit more). Look at it from the perspective of someone who never heard of Krita: the capsule should tell them that yes, this is exactly what they've been looking for, a good art software. They need to click, and then see the screenshots, click through the trailer, read through the description and think: yes, it's a good, professional, advanced program, I'll have everything I need there. And it won't be in any way scummy marketing: it would just show Krita as exactly the awesome program it is, and the users can read that it is free on the website and get it there: so we either get an immediate sale (which will hopefully later lead them to Krita community, FLOSS ideology etc.), or a new user, who might still later also buy it on Steam or donate to Krita Fund. There are also a few more things we could do, like putting that brush pack as DLC, etc. What do you think about it? Adding a workshop to share brushes would be more controversial, so I'm not suggesting that. (In fact, see 10))= . *8) ArchiveOfOurOwn* hosts a yearly month-long (?) fundraiser on their website and they always get a huge amount of money from it. (They do need it tbh). See for example here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/comments/y44onq/iconic_how_ao3_will_ask_for_do= nations_and_then/ - 3x the amount they asked for in the first 24h. They prevent "banner blindness" by only showing the banner during the fundraiser, (and if I'm not mistaken, they actually hide it after a few days, not a whole month, since they probably get plenty enough and don't want more). There were voices of maybe removing the banner from Krita Welcome Page, and only showing it from time to time. What do you think? *9) "Artists Interviews"* on the website sometimes have Phillip Urlich's beautiful art, and sometimes kind of lower quality from beginner/amateurish artists. And it's not updated since 2022. Are we sure that's good promotion for us? I'm looking at dev.krita.org right now, of course. What about just putting just one interview - for example the one I mentioned - as an example, and a link to a page with all interviews so it's not forgotten but it's also not on the main page? Or both at once, like this: ---------------------------------------------- | *See interviews with artists!* | | --------- | | | | *Interview with Phillip Urlich* | | | ART | ..... | | | | ....... | | --------- | ---------------------------------------------- Another option would be to make several more interviews with really good artists, creme de la creme, probably found on KA in Featured. On the main page imho we need to show that Krita is a great, advanced tool for professional artists, not just a toy for amateurs (no offense to amateurs, but marketing should show our best). And I don't think we'd be alienating the audience of beginner artists that way either, because they see that it can be used for amazing pictures like Soma makes, and beginners usually want/like to use the best tools. I always kind of had the feeling that those interviews were a bit stale - always the same questions that aren't that creative. I have no idea how to improve upon that, though. *10) Our own website to share resources.* We really don't have a good place - Krita Artists is an awesome community, but we can't really share files there, and it's harder to find good brushes. It's not terrible, but a dedicated website could be good. We could have something like Unity Marketplace, and have space for both free and paid stuff, taking 10-15-20% commision (we could even sell our own, like Digital Atelier etc.). Eventually we could even integrate it into Krita. Problem is, of course, that we don't have any web devs except scottyp, who is a volunteer. And that would require server space and whatnot. I'm not sure how feasible it is, but it could be a source of revenue. --- Agata pon., 23 pa=C5=BA 2023 o 13:50 Halla Rempt napisa=C5=82= (a): > On woensdag 11 oktober 2023 03:55:16 CEST Emmet O'Neill wrote: > > > Anyway, I really wanted to keep this short but I=E2=80=99ve blown it. P= lease take > > some time to read these ideas and let me know what you think. > > Long mails take longer to reply too... > > > --00000000000019ab600611ecb593 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Poor timing, but in my defense, I st= arted this mail way before the AI discussion started... won't say sorry= for length though, because I think it's important stuff.

###########= ########## =C2=A0Emmet's initial email =C2=A0#########################<= /font>

Ad 1) and 5) Tiers and tier pictures

I like t= he concept, I only have the complaint that the tiers are very USA-centric. = For example, in my country coffee for $5 would be considered a luxury spend= ing. A better comparison would be kebab (and it's a really good size, f= or me a whole day of eating :D or just normal dinner for one young man).
I like the idea about pictures for the tiers. I think that it would be= even better than writing it down, because then supporters won't questi= on the exact amounts, because no one expects the illustration to be 100% co= rrect.

Tiers being compared to real life spending would anchor the a= mount in the supporter's mind, so making the decision how much they wan= t to spend on Krita should be easier. Money is pretty abstract, and people = do tend to overthink spending small amounts and underthink big amounts when= it's all one decision, especially online, so that should help make the= value/amount more realistic, in a way.

2) Milestones and goals i= n the Fund: I don't know the psychology behind it, but it sounds fi= ne to me. Except that the Fund is currently at ~2800, so we'd need a ne= w milestone at $5000, or calculate all of them again.

3) Roadmap:= I think it would be good to have two roadmaps, one for 2024 (what we&#= 39;ll be discussing on Monday, I guess?), and one, more informal, "wha= t we want to do in Krita in the future", our dreams and desires, thing= s that we could do if we had more funding. That might encourage people to f= und Krita, because they'll see what they can gain from it.

Likew= ise, we need to keep doing the yearly summary, because that shows users wha= t they already gained, and proves that we are doing things for the money th= ey gave us. Might be a good idea to kind of link it together, for example a= dding a link to last year's summary and roadmaps in the next year's= roadmap, or do both at once, etc.

4) Fund-first, showing widgets= : I agree with things like adding widgets showing the goal and the curr= ent state of the fund in various places (on the website and in the applicat= ion).

I do think that maybe we're not clear enough that we need = users to donate. And on Steam, many of the comments state that they're = doing it to support Krita. So yes, promoting the Fund as *the* best way to = support Krita and making sure our users understand that would be good.
<= br>However on the other hand, Steam is the thing that gives us money right = now, and we shouldn't neglect that. Below, I'll write some suggesti= ons for the Steam page.

6) Corporate sponsors: I have no= thing to say about that. I don't know enough. Though from the sudden ju= mp in donations, I suspect maybe some corporate sponsor stopped supporting = us? This kind of jump is not great to have, but I don't know what we co= uld possibly do about that.
I think we just need to make sure tha= t we charge an appropriate amount for the work we do. Sure, I kind of half-= volunteer for Krita, but I wouldn't want to work for half-pay for some = corporation. So we should charge normal amounts, how usual companies charge= for developers' time, not our actual costs. Plus overhead and some pro= fit, obviously. We can't sell ourselves cheap. That's all.

###################### =C2=A0Halla's email =C2=A0= #########################

> =C2=A0I really need help with = managing the fund.krita.org website a= t least!
What does that entail?

################= ###### My topics #########################

7) Steam page o= ptimization.
I've watched some videos about that, and sure, they= are usually about games, but they still have some good points that I belie= ve apply to Krita as well.
They won't help with people who know what= Krita is, but hopefully they can guide people who don't know what Krit= a is, but are looking for an art software on Steam (as in, organic Steam pu= rchases instead of just Krita's users supporting us there).

- th= ere are only a few tags (which makes it harder to find) out of the allowed = 20
- no trailer (people like to click through it to see the gameplay, or= in Krita's case, to see the tools) - could be just clips of Ramon or D= avid painting in Krita - we could ask Ramon to make it, though then I'd= like to talk to him exactly how to make it and what to show, because it= 9;s different than yt videos
- no gifs, or even pictures, in the descrip= tion
- the screenshots mostly just show the pictures you can make in Kri= ta, there are no tools shown
- the thumbnail, especially the smaller var= iants, never tell what Krita is or how good it is. If someone doesn't k= now Krita, they might think it's an anime visual novel. Imho splash scr= een and Steam capsule have different purposes. Users see a splash screen wh= en they open a program they downloaded because they already know what it is= (or it's a website background etc.); Steam capsule is shown on listing= s, and it should show that Krita is a painting software, because people bro= wsing Steam might not know about it.

Basically, looking at the curre= nt Steam page, a potential user won't know how good it is: the Descript= ion says it is good, but come on, who'd read a Description without pict= ures? And there is no evidence of the advanced tools on the screenshots (I = mean there is some, but I think I'd like a bit more). Look at it from t= he perspective of someone who never heard of Krita: the capsule should tell= them that yes, this is exactly what they've been looking for, a good a= rt software. They need to click, and then see the screenshots, click throug= h the trailer, read through the description and think: yes, it's a good= , professional, advanced program, I'll have everything I need there. An= d it won't be in any way scummy marketing: it would just show Krita as = exactly the awesome program it is, and the users can read that it is free o= n the website and get it there: so we either get an immediate sale (which w= ill hopefully later lead them to Krita community, FLOSS ideology etc.), or = a new user, who might still later also buy it on Steam or donate to Krita F= und.

There are also a few more things we could do, like putting that= brush pack as DLC, etc. What do you think about it? Adding a workshop to s= hare brushes would be more controversial, so I'm not suggesting that. (= In fact, see 10)).


8) ArchiveOfOurOwn hosts a yearly mont= h-long (?) fundraiser on their website and they always get a huge amount of= money from it. (They do need it tbh). See for example here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/comments/y44onq/iconic_how_ao3= _will_ask_for_donations_and_then/ - 3x the amount they asked for in the= first 24h. They prevent "banner blindness" by only showing the b= anner during the fundraiser, (and if I'm not mistaken, they actually hi= de it after a few days, not a whole month, since they probably get plenty e= nough and don't want more).

There were voices of maybe removing = the banner from Krita Welcome Page, and only showing it from time to time.<= br>
What do you think?

9) "Artists Interviews" o= n the website sometimes have Phillip Urlich's beautiful art, and someti= mes kind of lower quality from beginner/amateurish artists. And it's no= t updated since 2022. Are we sure that's good promotion for us? I'm= looking at dev.krita.org right now, o= f course. What about just putting just one interview - for example the one = I mentioned - as an example, and a link to a page with all interviews so it= 's not forgotten but it's also not on the main page? Or both at onc= e, like this:

----------------= ------------------------------
| See interviews with artists! =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
| =C2=A0--------- =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
| =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2= =A0Interview with Phillip Urlich =C2=A0|
| =C2=A0| =C2=A0ART =C2= =A0| =C2=A0..... =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
| =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2= =A0....... =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
| =C2=A0--------- =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |
----------------------------------------------

An= other option would be to make several more interviews with really good arti= sts, creme de la creme, probably found on KA in Featured. On the main page = imho we need to show that Krita is a great, advanced tool for professional = artists, not just a toy for amateurs (no offense to amateurs, but marketing= should show our best). And I don't think we'd be alienating the au= dience of beginner artists that way either, because they see that it can be= used for amazing pictures like Soma makes, and beginners usually want/like= to use the best tools.

I always kind of had the feeling that those = interviews were a bit stale - always the same questions that aren't tha= t creative. I have no idea how to improve upon that, though.

10) = Our own website to share resources.
We really don't have a good = place - Krita Artists is an awesome community, but we can't really shar= e files there, and it's harder to find good brushes. It's not terri= ble, but a dedicated website could be good. We could have something like Un= ity Marketplace, and have space for both free and paid stuff, taking 10-15-= 20% commision (we could even sell our own, like Digital Atelier etc.). Even= tually we could even integrate it into Krita.
Problem is, of course= , that we don't have any web devs except scottyp, who is a volunteer. A= nd that would require server space and whatnot. I'm not sure how feasib= le it is, but it could be a source of revenue.

---=
Agata



pon., 23 pa=C5=BA 2023 = o 13:50=C2=A0Halla Rempt <halla@val= dyas.org> napisa=C5=82(a):
On woensdag 11 oktober 2023 03:55:16 CEST Emmet O'Nei= ll wrote:

> Anyway, I really wanted to keep this short but I=E2=80=99ve blown it. = Please take
> some time to read these ideas and let me know what you think.

Long mails take longer to reply too...


--00000000000019ab600611ecb593--