From kde-kimageshop Thu Aug 27 10:20:32 2015 From: silvio grosso Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:20:32 +0000 To: kde-kimageshop Subject: Re: After 2.9.7 Message-Id: <1097109019.1749221.1440670832797.JavaMail.yahoo () mail ! yahoo ! com> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-kimageshop&m=144067101415222 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--===============4000299786463688661==" --===============4000299786463688661== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1749220_886097099.1440670832783" ------=_Part_1749220_886097099.1440670832783 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Boud, > And then start hacking... Thoughts? Flames? I am fully aware it is *none* of my business since I am not a developer but= I have followed the Krita development since many years now... In short, I was *truly* expecting to read this message sooner or later...At= present, if you want to:- Port Krita to QT 5.5; - Port Krita to Mac (e.g. trough a Kickstarter);- Try to make Krita working= fine on Windows 10 as well;- etc etcIMHO, you are forced to concentrate al= l your efforts on Krita... Personally, as an open source user, I am particularly sorry for Kexi becaus= e it still greatly maintened.=20 In addition, LibreOffice does not have any real interest in LibreOffice Bas= e. As regards these past years of development, the only real new feature fo= r Base, is the Firebird back-end which is still experimental though...Givin= g how "easy" is to use PostgreSQL thanks to the GUI of Pgadmin I suppose th= ey are right to neglect Base...=C2=A0I do not want to sound a=C2=A0 bit pes= simistic but if you take a look a the huge LibreOffice development [1], in = my view, it is unlikely for any Office - Open Source competitor to have a c= hance in the future [2].=20 Lately they even ported LibreOffice to Gtk 3, which, in turn, AFAIK, means = it will be way easier for them to make LibreOffice work smoothly on Android= as well.I think that even Microsoft should start worrying... :-) Just my 2 cents (no offense meant...) Best regards, Silvio Grosso [1] An Open Letter to Apache Foundation and Apache OpenOffice team | Christ= ian Schaller | =C2=A0 | | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | | An Open Letter to Apache Foundation and Apache OpenOffice team | Christia= n SchallerA couple of weeks I visited my mother back home in Norway. She ha= d gotten a new laptop some time ago that my brother-in-law had set up for h= er. | | | | Visualizza su blogs.gnome.org | Anteprima per Yahoo | | | | =C2=A0 | [2] LibreOffice/core | =C2=A0 | | =C2=A0 | | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | | LibreOffice/coreRead-only LibreOffice core repo - no pull request | | | | Visualizza su github.com | Anteprima per Yahoo | | | | =C2=A0 | =20 Il Gioved=C3=AC 27 Agosto 2015 9:58, Boudewijn Rempt ha scritto: =20 =20 Hi, We had a long discussion on #calligra yesterday, but I don't know whether we came to any conclusion... There are a bunch of things we have to consider before moving on after 2.9.7. I think that the frameworks branch is now ready to be called 3.0. It's obviously not ready to release to end users, but we should make it the new master. But let's call it the frameworks branch for now. I propose that we move all feature development (magnetic selection tool, animation, LOD) to the frameworks branch or a branch branched off frameworks at this point. From that point on, only bug fixes should go into 2.9, and each bug fix should be individually forward-ported to frameworks The bigger question is, what are we going to do with the frameworks branch itself and with our git repo, and with our community? This is really hard for me, personally, to formulate, but the truth is, now that I am sponsored to work on Krita, I cannot afford to spend time on the rest of calligra if that doesn't directly benefit Krita. I cannot refactor something in the libraries and then port sheets, because I feel that would be a misuse of the money the community has donated. With the merging of the mvc branch, I already ran into that, and found=20 that I just couldn't find the hours of the day to work on sheets, stage and the rest. And apparently, nobody else could find the time. For the frameworks branch, I do want to do a big cleanup. I want to make building krita much easier, and that means cutting down on dependencies, cutting down on code in libraries that krita doesn't need. On the other hand, if I were the words maintainer, I would like to get rid of stuff that words doesn't need, like pigment. Originally, I envisaged our split up repo like: calligra-libs=20 calligra-apps calligra-plugins krita kexi Or even split up calligra-libs into a set of repos: that would help with the dependency graph in Linux distributions, where they now make marble and mysql dependencies of Krita... But in the discussion yesterday, I think we came to a sort of tentative conclusion that it doesn't make sense to push all our libraries into separate repositories, and that it even doesn't make sense to create a separate calligra-libs.git that could be used by the applications. I am not sure how much of the calligra libs are used by Kexi, and whether sharing the same libraries between Kexi and the office applications makes sense. Should kexi go into its own repo? For Krita, and I hate to say this, it probably makes sense to fork our shared libraries. The office-apps maintainers can then strip out all the krita-specific stuff, and for Krita, we can strip out the stuff that only makes sense for office applications. I also think that it makes sense for Krita to integrate the karbon plugins and tools, and maybe the karbon filters. I honestly don't see any future for karbon as a separate application. You cannot build a good vector drawin= g application without a dedicated maintainer, and Karbon has been officially unmaintained since April 2013 already. I'm not really happy writing this mail... But anyway, back to practical=20 issues. I'd like to start taking steps next week already. * split up our git repo whichever we we like * ask sysadmin to put our repos up * update all the build documentation on community.kde.org to talk about kf5 and the new repo locations * update the information on our websites (not forgetting kde.org) * ping David Revoy about updating his build guide * figure out the release process after the split? And then start hacking... Thoughts? Flames? Boudewijn _______________________________________________ Krita mailing list kimageshop@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop =20 ------=_Part_1749220_886097099.1440670832783 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Boud,

> And then s= tart hacking... Thoughts? Flames?

I am fully aware it is *none* of my business since I am not a de= veloper but I have followed the Krita development since many years now...

In short, I was *truly* = expecting to read this message sooner or later...
At present, if you want to:
- Port Krita to QT 5.5;
- Port Krit= a to Mac (e.g. trough a Kickstarter);
- Try to make Krita working fine on Windows 10 as w= ell;
- etc etc=
IMHO, you are= forced to concentrate all your efforts on Krita...

Personally, as an open source user, I am parti= cularly sorry for Kexi because it still greatly maintened.
In addition, LibreOffice = does not have any real interest in LibreOffice Base. As regards these past = years of development, the only real new feature for Base, is the Firebird b= ack-end which is still experimental though...
Giving how "easy" is to use PostgreSQL than= ks to the GUI of Pgadmin I suppose they are right to neglect Base...
<= div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440668223365_6653" dir=3D"ltr"> 
I do not want to sound a&n= bsp; bit pessimistic but if you take a look a the huge LibreOffice developm= ent [1], in my view, it is unlikely for any Office - Open Source competitor= to have a chance in the future [2].
Lately they even ported LibreOffice to Gtk 3, w= hich, in turn, AFAIK, means it=20 will be way easier for them to make LibreOffice work smoothly on Android as= =20 well.
I think = that even Microsoft should start worrying... :-)

Just my 2 cents (no offense meant...)

Best regards,

Silvio Grosso

Visualizza su blogs.gnome.org<= /td>=





Il Gioved=C3=AC 27 Agosto 2015 9:58, Bo= udewijn Rempt <boud@valdyas.org> ha scritto:


Hi,

We had a long discussion on #calligra yesterday, but I don't= know whether
we came to any conclusion... There are a bunch of things w= e have to
consider before moving on after 2.9.7.

I think that the= frameworks branch is now ready to be called 3.0. It's
obviously not rea= dy to release to end users, but we should make it the
new master. But le= t's call it the frameworks branch for now.

I propose that we move al= l feature development (magnetic selection
tool, animation, LOD) to the f= rameworks branch or a branch branched off
frameworks at this point. From= that point on, only bug fixes should
go into 2.9, and each bug fix shou= ld be individually forward-ported
to frameworks

The bigger questi= on is, what are we going to do with the frameworks
branch itself and wit= h our git repo, and with our community?

This is really hard for me, = personally, to formulate, but the truth is,
now that I am sponsored to w= ork on Krita, I cannot afford to spend time
on the rest of calligra if t= hat doesn't directly benefit Krita. I cannot
refactor something in the l= ibraries and then port sheets, because I feel
that would be a misuse of = the money the community has donated.

With the merging of the mvc bra= nch, I already ran into that, and found
that I just couldn't find the h= ours of the day to work on sheets, stage
and the rest. And apparently, n= obody else could find the time.

For the frameworks branch, I do want= to do a big cleanup. I want to make
building krita much easier, and tha= t means cutting down on dependencies,
cutting down on code in libraries = that krita doesn't need. On the other
hand, if I were the words maintain= er, I would like to get rid of stuff
that words doesn't need, like pigme= nt.

Originally, I envisaged our split up repo like:

calligra-= libs
calligra-apps
calligra-plugins
krita
kexi

Or even = split up calligra-libs into a set of repos: that would help with
the dep= endency graph in Linux distributions, where they now make marble
and mys= ql dependencies of Krita...

But in the discussion yesterday, I think= we came to a sort of tentative
conclusion that it doesn't make sense to= push all our libraries into
separate repositories, and that it even doe= sn't make sense to create a
separate calligra-libs.git that could be use= d by the applications.

I am not sure how much of the calligra libs a= re used by Kexi, and whether
sharing the same libraries between Kexi and= the office applications makes
sense. Should kexi go into its own repo?<= br>
For Krita, and I hate to say this, it probably makes sense to fork o= ur
shared libraries. The office-apps maintainers can then strip out all = the
krita-specific stuff, and for Krita, we can strip out the stuff that= only
makes sense for office applications.

I also think that it m= akes sense for Krita to integrate the karbon plugins
and tools, and mayb= e the karbon filters. I honestly don't see any future
for karbon as a se= parate application. You cannot build a good vector drawing
application w= ithout a dedicated maintainer, and Karbon has been officially
unmaintain= ed since April 2013 already.

I'm not really happy writing this mail.= .. But anyway, back to practical
issues. I'd like to start taking steps= next week already.

* split up our git repo whichever we we like
= * ask sysadmin to put our repos up
* update all the build documentation = on community.kde.org to talk
about kf5 and the new repo locations
* u= pdate the information on our websites (not forgetting kde.org)
* ping Da= vid Revoy about updating his build guide
* figure out the release proces= s after the split?

And then start hacking... Thoughts? Flames?
Boudewijn
_______________________________________________
Krita mai= ling list
kimageshop@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/li= stinfo/kimageshop


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