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List: kde-kimageshop
Subject: Re: Krita performance.
From: Sven Langkamp <sven.langkamp () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-05-21 19:08:19
Message-ID: CAAmsBfkt_WM+mFMrxLTK1zFOBFo2jn1tHXQO3jpkz28Th47mnw () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Boudewijn Rempt <boud@valdyas.org> wrote:
> On Sunday 19 May 2013 May 09:51:22 Simon Legrand wrote:
> > Hi guys. As an effort to make Krita used by artists in my studio I have
> to
> > show them why it is beneficial to use Krita over Photoshop on wine (or
> ever
> > harder, photoshop on a windows box).
> >
> > My first step would be to, at least, replace Photoshop CS2 on wine with
> > Krita.
> >
> > The first hurdle and the hardest one to justify for now is performance.
> > Even though Krita says it does high bit depth and large size canvas on
> the
> > UI (and the website), it still does not make it possible to do any work
> at
> > those high resolutions.
>
> Which version did you test exactly? The Centos build (23 or 24?) or a
> home-grown build?
>
> >
> > A very simple example, is to put CS2 on wine and Krita, on the same
> machine
> > running next to each other.
> >
> > In this test I created an A4, 300dpi document, then I painted it with
> fill
> > and gradient. So far so good. Then I doubled the size of the document
> > again, I could see krita was starting to slow down, but it was still ok.
> I
> > then attempted to double the canvs again, but that was a limit I think.
>
> Hm, that is 14032x9632 -- that is a bit beyond what we currently assume
> are normal working sizes :-( I'm wondering whether we aren't reaching the
> limit of our tile approach here. At 16 bit/channel (whether float of
> integer) that's about a gigabyte of uncompressed data per layer.
>
> We're tracking attempts to improve here:
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273860
I think we need to do something significantly different to get to this
performance level. I don't think the current approach can
be optimized enough to do it. We discussed that on the last sprint and we
had no idea what Photoshop is doing. In meantime they are going for GPU
support like Mari.
> > So
> > I moved on to convert to 16bit. Photoshop did it effortlessly, but Krita
> > crash.
>
> Did you start out at 8 bit rgba, or 32 bit float? I couldn't quite see on
> the movie.
>
> >
> > This is only the first of a series of comparisons I will run. But,
> > essentially, if Krita cannot outperform Photoshop on wine, it's
> impossible
> > for me to convert my studio to it. The price tag is not really an issue,
> > what our artists need is performance. Even the UI quirks are something
> > artists can get used to, Mari was adopted in the industry extremely
> quickly
> > even though it had a UI no one had used before. Because performance drew
> > the industry to use it.
> >
> --
> Boudewijn Rempt
> http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org, http://www.boudewijnrempt.nl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Krita mailing list
> kimageshop@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Boudewijn Rempt <span \
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:boud@valdyas.org" \
target="_blank">boud@valdyas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><div \
class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div \
class="im">On Sunday 19 May 2013 May 09:51:22 Simon Legrand wrote:<br> > Hi guys. \
As an effort to make Krita used by artists in my studio I have to<br> > show them \
why it is beneficial to use Krita over Photoshop on wine (or ever<br> > harder, \
photoshop on a windows box).<br> ><br>
> My first step would be to, at least, replace Photoshop CS2 on wine with<br>
> Krita.<br>
><br>
> The first hurdle and the hardest one to justify for now is performance.<br>
> Even though Krita says it does high bit depth and large size canvas on the<br>
> UI (and the website), it still does not make it possible to do any work at<br>
> those high resolutions.<br>
<br>
</div>Which version did you test exactly? The Centos build (23 or 24?) or a \
home-grown build?<br> <div class="im"><br>
><br>
> A very simple example, is to put CS2 on wine and Krita, on the same machine<br>
> running next to each other.<br>
><br>
> In this test I created an A4, 300dpi document, then I painted it with fill<br>
> and gradient. So far so good. Then I doubled the size of the document<br>
> again, I could see krita was starting to slow down, but it was still ok. I<br>
> then attempted to double the canvs again, but that was a limit I think.<br>
<br>
</div>Hm, that is 14032x9632 -- that is a bit beyond what we currently assume are \
normal working sizes :-( I'm wondering whether we aren't reaching the limit \
of our tile approach here. At 16 bit/channel (whether float of integer) that's \
about a gigabyte of uncompressed data per layer.<br>
<br>
We're tracking attempts to improve here: <a \
href="https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273860" \
target="_blank">https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273860</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div \
style>I think we need to do something significantly different to get to this \
performance level. I don't think the current approach can be optimized enough to \
do it. We discussed that on the last sprint and we had no idea what Photoshop is \
doing. In meantime they are going for GPU support like Mari.</div> <div> \
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im"> > So<br>
> I moved on to convert to 16bit. Photoshop did it effortlessly, but Krita<br>
> crash.<br>
<br>
</div>Did you start out at 8 bit rgba, or 32 bit float? I couldn't quite see on \
the movie.<br> <div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
><br>
> This is only the first of a series of comparisons I will run. But,<br>
> essentially, if Krita cannot outperform Photoshop on wine, it's \
impossible<br> > for me to convert my studio to it. The price tag is not really an \
issue,<br> > what our artists need is performance. Even the UI quirks are \
something<br> > artists can get used to, Mari was adopted in the industry \
extremely quickly<br> > even though it had a UI no one had used before. Because \
performance drew<br> > the industry to use it.<br>
><br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--<br>
Boudewijn Rempt<br>
<a href="http://www.valdyas.org" target="_blank">http://www.valdyas.org</a>, <a \
href="http://www.krita.org" target="_blank">http://www.krita.org</a>, <a \
href="http://www.boudewijnrempt.nl" \
target="_blank">http://www.boudewijnrempt.nl</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Krita mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kimageshop@kde.org">kimageshop@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop</a><br> \
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
_______________________________________________
Krita mailing list
kimageshop@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop
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