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List:       kde-kimageshop
Subject:    Re: Branch krita-ui_improvements-silvioheinrich
From:       Boudewijn Rempt <boud () valdyas ! org>
Date:       2011-06-09 13:30:45
Message-ID: 201106091530.45984.boud () valdyas ! org
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On Wednesday 08 June 2011 Jun, David REVOY wrote:
> 
> > > Regarding the logic confusion: the opacity option in the brush editor
> > > controls the mask opacity. That is different opacity then the one in
> > > the tool bar.
> > > The global opacity (in the toolbar)  is used to composite the final
> > > dab with canvas.
> > > So there is difference. Now there is slider in the option that
> > > controls both..not sure
> > > if that is good idea.
> > It's of course logical for us, because we know how everything works
> > internally.
> > But just try to think like a user who doesn't know what a brush mask is,
> > doesn't care about
> > the internal workings of krita and just want to paint.
> > The user sees an opacity slider int the toolbar and thinks when he will
> > set it to 30% the brush stroke will
> > be 30% opaque (ok at least I would expect this :D).
> > But the previous situation was that this 30% where actually 30% of the
> > opacity set in the preset editor.
> > So, when the opacity in the preset editor is set to 70% the overall
> > opacity would be 30% of 70%.
> > I don't really see any benefit in this.
> > I mean I didn't notice this, too (because I know the internals as well).
> > I just noticed as I read one of Davids mails and it seemed to me that he
> > was a bit confused
> > about the two different opacity values.
> > 
> Yes I was confused by Krita naming and options but reading this 
> discution, I can understand more where is the problem now  (I guess )
> 2 big topic are confusing for my user experience with Krita :
> 
> [1] the 2 opacity sliders mess :
> -  The opacity in the preset editor seams to be in fact a bad named 
> *flow* parameters ; other software use this label name for 'opacity per 
> dab' or 'opacity per brushmask' .

So basically, Silvio implemented "flow" without know? But in photoshop and corel \
painter, flow is another slider in the main toolbar, isn't it? Should we also add it \
there?

> -  The global opacity slider seams to be a real *opacity* parameters ; 
> used for global compositing of the end result stroke.
> ex :  ( http://david.revoy.free.fr/forums/krita/opacity-and-flow.jpg , 
> This 2 parameters , (advanced)  Artist understand it, and it's useful.  )
> 
> [2] the 2 'painting modes' mess
> In Krita actually there is "2 modes" that wan be a bit obscure .
> - In 'Build up' , the 2 opacity sliders  behave for one as a "flow" , 
> and other (global one ) as "opacity". Fine.
> "Build up" looks like what I know from Gimp and Photoshop. The 
> behavior is predictable.
> - In 'Wash' , the 2 opacity sliders are just an indentation of the same 
> effect setting ; and there is a weird effect only Krita has ;
> a weird alpha self collision with the previous alpha of the previous dab 
> > ( 
> http://david.revoy.free.fr/forums/krita/krita-opacity_dab-self-collision.jpg 
> )
> Wash mode was useful for me when I couldn't save the 'global 
> opacity' slider of a brush preset ; at this time, this 2 painting modes 
> acted as a switch between 'per dab opacity' and ' global opacity'. But 
> now I can save the 'global opacity' in build up ; wash mode became obsolete.

Oh good! Then we can _remove_ an option :-). I think our preset editor was getting a \
bit too crowded in places :-)

We had wash because the strokes were always too dark, back in the 1.6 days. Bart \
Coppens implemented this separation, I seem to remember. It's not quite the same as \
Gimp's direct and indirect painting mode, but it was meant to make sure you could, in \
one stroke, repeatedly go over the same area without making the result darker.

> 
> [X] So, Solution proposed :
> 1) Name the "opacity in the preset editor" category 'Flow'
> 2) Include the "global opacity" as a new categorie in the preset editor, 
> acting as "opacity"
> 3) This will result of a remove of 'Wash' mode to keep only "Build up" ; 
> and so removing the choice and option.
> 4) add 2 sliders on the top toolbar option : "opacity" and "flow" sync 
> with the preset editor as in Gimp and Photoshop  ( 
> http://david.revoy.free.fr/forums/krita/opacity-and-flow_othersoft.jpg )

Sounds like a good plan to me -- do others agree?

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org
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