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List: kde-kimageshop
Subject: Re: A first part of the layers/masks patch
From: Dmitry Kazakov <dimula73 () gmail ! com>
Date: 2009-09-26 20:16:32
Message-ID: ae32c1ef0909261316u7d7ab8a2l367e9fd449464a27 () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Sven Langkamp <sven.langkamp@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dmitry Kazakov <dimula73@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Cyrille Berger <cberger@cberger.net>wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday 26 September 2009, Dmitry Kazakov wrote:
>>> > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Cyrille Berger <cberger@cberger.net
>>> >wrote:
>>> > > On Saturday 26 September 2009, Dmitry Kazakov wrote:
>>> > > > > for a,b,c) it doesn't work perfectly, but it's not that broken.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > But still not usable =(
>>> > >
>>> > > Well now, I have fix all the issue with the alpha colorspace (I have
>>> > > added alpha darken). All it remains to do is to make mask support the
>>> > > indirect painting interface.
>>> >
>>> > Well, no. You've not fixed that. It's just a workaround.
>>> >
>>> > Testcase:
>>> > 1) Create any mask (e.g. transparency mask)
>>> > 2) Paint something on a mask to get transparency
>>> >
>>> > Let's imagine after these steps you decide to make some rect visible
>>> again,
>>> > what are you going to do? In a good editor you just select this rect
>>> with
>>> > selection and fill it with a white color (or any semi-transparent
>>> one(!)).
>>> Why white ?
>>>
>>
>> I can't remember which color is used usually (e.g. in a "well known
>> graphical editor"). I guess, when we paint with white paint the image
>> becomes opaque, when we paint with black paint - becomes transparent, with
>> gray color - becomes semi-transparent.
>>
>
> At the moment there is a fundamental difference between Gimp/Photoshop and
> Krita in the way we see masks. In both cases we have and (8-bit) one channel
> paint device, so not a technical difference.
> The actual difference is how these channel is interpreted: In
> Gimp/Photoshop is a grayscale representation while in Krita it's an alpha
> representation.
>
> The grayscale way is probably what most artists are used too, even if the
> meaning of black and white is arbitary. The advantage is that it match good
> with gradient and fill.
>
> The way Krita uses is closer to the physical representation either there is
> something (color) or you can look through it. The problem that Dmitry
> descibes is that the only way to "paint" transparency is the eraser tool in
> Krita, which might be unusual for users form other editors. The bigger
> problem is that you e.g. can't use a transparent color in the fill tool.
>
> I hope that's the correctly summarizes it.
>
Thanks, Sven! That is exactly what i mean! =)
Another "biger problem" is that you can't paint semi-transparent masks even
with the eraser tool.
--
Dmitry Kazakov
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Sven Langkamp \
<span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:sven.langkamp@gmail.com">sven.langkamp@gmail.com</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, \
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="gmail_quote"><div \
class="im">On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dmitry Kazakov <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:dimula73@gmail.com" target="_blank">dimula73@gmail.com</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, \
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Cyrille \
Berger <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cberger@cberger.net" \
target="_blank">cberger@cberger.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>On Saturday 26 September 2009, Dmitry Kazakov wrote:<br>
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Cyrille Berger <<a \
href="mailto:cberger@cberger.net" \
target="_blank">cberger@cberger.net</a>>wrote:<br> > > On Saturday 26 \
September 2009, Dmitry Kazakov wrote:<br> > > > > for a,b,c) it \
doesn't work perfectly, but it's not that broken.<br> > > ><br>
> > > But still not usable =(<br>
> ><br>
> > Well now, I have fix all the issue with the alpha colorspace (I have<br>
> > added alpha darken). All it remains to do is to make mask support the<br>
> > indirect painting interface.<br>
><br>
> Well, no. You've not fixed that. It's just a workaround.<br>
><br>
> Testcase:<br>
> 1) Create any mask (e.g. transparency mask)<br>
> 2) Paint something on a mask to get transparency<br>
><br>
> Let's imagine after these steps you decide to make some rect visible \
again,<br> > what are you going to do? In a good editor you just select this rect \
with<br> > selection and fill it with a white color (or any semi-transparent \
one(!)).<br> </div>Why white ?<br></blockquote></div><div><br>I can't remember \
which color is used usually (e.g. in a "well known graphical editor"). I \
guess, when we paint with white paint the image becomes opaque, when we paint with \
black paint - becomes transparent, with gray color - becomes semi-transparent.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>At the moment there is a fundamental \
difference between Gimp/Photoshop and Krita in the way we see masks. In both cases we \
have and (8-bit) one channel paint device, so not a technical difference.<br>
The actual difference is how these channel is interpreted: In Gimp/Photoshop is a \
grayscale representation while in Krita it's an alpha representation. <br><br>The \
grayscale way is probably what most artists are used too, even if the meaning of \
black and white is arbitary. The advantage is that it match good with gradient and \
fill.<br>
<br>The way Krita uses is closer to the physical representation either there is \
something (color) or you can look through it. The problem that Dmitry descibes is \
that the only way to "paint" transparency is the eraser tool in Krita, \
which might be unusual for users form other editors. The bigger problem is that you \
e.g. can't use a transparent color in the fill tool.<br>
<br>I hope that's the correctly summarizes \
it.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Thanks, Sven! That is exactly what i mean! \
=)<br><br>Another "biger problem" is that you can't paint \
semi-transparent masks even with the eraser tool.<br> <br> </div></div>-- <br>Dmitry \
Kazakov<br>
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