From kde-i18n-eo Sun May 28 02:49:23 2006 From: Martin Ponce Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:49:23 +0000 To: kde-i18n-eo Subject: [Kde-i18n-eo] Fwd: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 31 Message-Id: <20060528024923.33089.qmail () web31505 ! mail ! mud ! yahoo ! com> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-i18n-eo&m=114878459802221 Pardonu pri la ekster'topika mesagxo, sed mi trovas grave diskonigi tiu-chi. --- kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org wrote: > From: kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org > Subject: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 31 > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:51:43 +0200 > > Send kde-i18n-doc mailing list submissions to > kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of kde-i18n-doc digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jonathan Riddell) > 2. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jonathan Riddell) > 3. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Yukiko Bando) > 4. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Kevin Donnelly) > 5. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Spiros Georgaras) > 6. Release kipi (Tom Albers) > 7. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Thomas Diehl) > 8. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Thomas Diehl) > 9. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jannick Kuhr) > 10. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jannick Kuhr) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 19:00:07 +0100 > From: Jonathan Riddell > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <20060527180007.GZ15510@muse.19inch.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I wasn't subscribed to the list so I'll answer all points so far in 1 > e-mail. > > > When will Rosetta be open source? > > When Mark says so, probably a few years yet. > > > Are the translations done in launchpad.net commited into KDE SVN ? > > No, that's why I recommend you to check for translations that would be > useful to export and put back into KDE SVN. > > > But, according to a member of the German translation team, some of the > > team POs were changed in KUbuntu, and apparently without > > notification. > > There was a problem with the German translation where I didn't upload > kde-i18n-de for KDE 3.5.2 until recently. > > > How are the KDE teams supposed to know what changes are done in > > Rosetta? I do not want to create an account and check the ubuntu files > > for changes. > > At the moment that is the only way. > > > What about Rosetta changes the KDE teams do not want to get in? > > Don't import them. > > > As far as I know none of the german ubuntu translators did contact the > > german KDE team before working on the german translations in unbuntu. > > Might be worthwhile contacting them and pointing them to useful > reference documentation. > > > How do I explain a KDE translator that his work is already done from > > someone else skipping the team processes? > > I'm not sure what this is asking, the Ubuntu translation teams will > have their own processes (being young teams some of them may be less > mature than in KDE). You can either ignore their work or take it back > as best suits you. > > > Don't get me wrong, but at the moment this looks more like a parallel > > community to me. > > It is. Distributions have always had parallel development communities > than their upstreams. > > > Another thing that I'm worried about is that they seem to be working > > on old files. > > Yes, the files are from the KDE 3.5.2 release. Longer term there is > an idea to import into Rosetta from KDE's SVN directly. > > Jonathan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 19:27:52 +0100 > From: Jonathan Riddell > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <20060527182752.GA15510@muse.19inch.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Kevin Donnelly wrote: > > The first is whether or not this gives an individual distro too much > > leverage. I'm not sure that web interfaces have been quite as > > successful as I might have hoped three years ago, but is it a good > > idea to have "the" KDE one farmed out to a specific distro? > > I don't recomment Rosetta becomes an official KDE translation method, > as Cornelius pointed out it's not Free Software for a start. But some > translators and teams may find it the best way to lower the barrier of > entry. > > > In fact, what is the relationship between the web material and the > > KDE-svn material? The latter has to be the gold standard, for the > > simple reason that it is available for ALL distros to use. If so, it > > implies that the Rosetta stuff needs to be synced with KDE-svn. > > Currently it includes the translations from the latest KDE i18n > release that I upload, 3.5.2 in this case. There is a plan to sync > from KDE SVN at some point in the future. > > > For instance, if the GNOME team has decided on a particular term for > > something, and the KDE team has standardised on another one, does this > > mean that that term will be changed in the KDE translations without > > input from the KDE team? > > If a the same term is already translated elsewhere in Rosetta it will > offer that as a suggestion. Whether or not a paticular Ubuntu > translation team will change all the KDE terms to use the Gnome terms > is up to the team but in general that would seem like a very bad idea. > > > For instance, if I click the tuxpaint file, I am told that I am "not > > an official translator for this file", even though I did the > > translation. > > You need to be a member of the relevant ubuntu translation team (which > should be marked on the same page). > > > This presumably means that I would be "reporting to" whoever the > > Ubuntu language coordinator is, since they are the ones granting the > > status. Seems a bit odd. > > That would be the case, but as with software development I'd expect > the distriution team to respect the experience of the upstream team. > > > On a practical issue, I think giving a huge list of files, with no > > indication of where they belong, is a major useability no-no. > > The Rosetta developers have started sorting the files by importance. > > > I also note that KOffice files are not listed yet (although > > OpenOffice.org files are) - is it intended to import them too? > > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/koffice/+translations > > Jonathan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 05:32:07 +0900 > From: Yukiko Bando > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <200605280532.08003.ybando@k6.dion.ne.jp> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > > > How do I explain a KDE translator that his work is already done from > > > someone else skipping the team processes? > > > > I'm not sure what this is asking, the Ubuntu translation teams will > > have their own processes (being young teams some of them may be less > > mature than in KDE). You can either ignore their work or take it back > > as best suits you. > > I'm not the one who asked the question, but what if the translator is a > Kubuntu user and working for the KDE team? He or she should expect his > or her translation to be included in the next release but might see > someone else's instead. Or is it officially announced that Kubuntu users > should not work for the KDE translation team? > > > > Don't get me wrong, but at the moment this looks more like a parallel > > > community to me. > > > > It is. Distributions have always had parallel development communities > > than their upstreams. > > When it comes to translation, I'd say it is a waste of human resources > since the original messages to translate are the same. What if every > major distribution offers the same kind of tool? I don't think it is an > efficient way that ten translators work for ten different distributions > without communicating with each other. > > I suppose we can get better results when all forces are combined. When a > translator finds an error, I want him or her to report it upstream i.e. > the KDE team and it is corrected in KDE SVN, which is accessible to > everyone. > > I'd like to suggest that you limit the use of Rosetta to distribution > specific applications and encourage your translators to join the KDE team > for KDE translation. > > > > Another thing that I'm worried about is that they seem to be working > > > on old files. > > > > Yes, the files are from the KDE 3.5.2 release. Longer term there is > > an idea to import into Rosetta from KDE's SVN directly. > > Will changes made in KDE SVN overwrite those in Rosetta then? How do you > resolve conflicts? > > Sorry if I sounded harsh, but, as a translator, I'd like the time and > effort I spent to be used by as many people as possible. > > Regards, > Yukiko > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 22:30:46 +0100 > From: Kevin Donnelly > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <200605272230.46827.kevin@dotmon.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Saturday 27 May 2006 19:27, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > I don't recomment Rosetta becomes an official KDE translation method, > > as Cornelius pointed out it's not Free Software for a start. ?But some > > translators and teams may find it the best way to lower the barrier of > > entry. > > > Thanks for the replies, Jonathan. They make things a bit clearer. I > conclude > from these that there is no mileage in trying to move to Rosetta. If there > is a sudden splurge of KDE translations via Rosetta, which I doubt, I would > have to reconsider, but until then my view is that Ubuntu can get its KDE > translations from KDE-svn like everyone else. > > -- > > Pob hwyl / Best wishes > > Kevin Donnelly > > www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg > www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg > www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg > www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:00:33 +0300 > From: Spiros Georgaras > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: KDE i18n-doc > Message-ID: <4478CC01.4090302@otenet.gr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > O/H Yukiko Bando ??????: > > ... > > ... > > > > I suppose we can get better results when all forces are combined. When a > > translator finds an error, I want him or her to report it upstream i.e. > > the KDE team and it is corrected in KDE SVN, which is accessible to > > everyone. > > > > I'd like to suggest that you limit the use of Rosetta to distribution > > specific applications and encourage your translators to join the KDE team > > for KDE translation. > > > > I couldn't agree more... > Furthermore, I would like to suggest to import distribution specific > applications in KDE SVN, provided they are KDE related, so that KDE l10n > teams are responsible for translating them. > > For example, SuSE menus and yast translations for the Greek language are > handled by a team that is not related to the Greek KDE l10n team. So the > two translations, KDE and SuSE specific, have a lot of differences - to > put it simple: the same english words are translated differently in > Greek. Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying we do it the right > way and they don't. It's just different, and the overall "look and > feel", is bad... > > On the other hand, a tool like resetta permits a person with no previous > experience in translating KDE apps, to start translating without being > able to use tools like "translation memory", and without being able to > communicate with other translators, thus producing what I would think as > "low quality" material. And when this material is submitted to the > corresponding l10n team, imagine the effort needed to check and correct it. > > The Greek KDE l10n team has spent the last 18 months or so, correcting > these "errors" for apps that are within KDE SVN, and I must say it is a > hard, slow and boring procedure, that nobody would want to go through > again. Having high translation stats is one thing, and having high > quality translated apps is another... > > So please, consider disregarding rosetta altogether, and start using KDE > SVN instead - I don't think KDE people would mind... > > Kind regards > S. Georgaras > Greek l10n team coordinator > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFEeMv4KWglI0Ht5qcRAsxcAKDu2vSsPYNjs4VdIxIcyccMycN50gCg6h74 > zXVO8+9CNpALA6mhSD7ddLo= > =jAOo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 00:39:20 +0200 > From: Tom Albers > Subject: Release kipi > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <200605280039.20632.tomalbers@kde.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > After two release candidates we will pack the final version for kipi-plugins > at the 13th of June. That's means translations have to be committed at the > 12th latest. > > This week there will be one or two string changes in one of the kipi plugins, > > you might want to keep an eye on that. > > Hope you are all fine with this planning. > > Tom Albers > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: smime.p7s > Type: application/pkcs7-signature > Size: 1853 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : > http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-i18n-doc/attachments/20060528/ed85dfe0/attachment.bin > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:05:28 +0200 > From: Thomas Diehl > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: KDE i18n-doc > Message-ID: <200605280105.30292.kontakt@dtp-diehl.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" > > Am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2006 00:00 schrieb Spiros Georgaras: > > > On the other hand, a tool like resetta permits a person with > > no previous experience in translating KDE apps, ?to start > > translating without being able to use tools like "translation > > memory", and without being able to communicate with other > > translators, thus producing what I would think as "low > > quality" material. > > Judging from a posting of to the German list for Ubuntu > translators it's even worse: They have no idea of who is > changing what, find it difficult to test their translations in > the actual programs, don't see the source code, not mentioning > context info. So this posting suggests to drop Rosetta entirely > for Ubuntu translation and use gtranslator or emacs instead like > their Dutch team already did (as it says). > > For those who read German: > http://www.mail-archive.com/translators-de%40ubuntu-eu.org/msg00071.html > > Kind regards, > > Thomas > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:21:03 +0200 > From: Thomas Diehl > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <200605280121.04872.kontakt@dtp-diehl.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Am Samstag, 27. Mai 2006 20:00 schrieb Jonathan Riddell: > > > > Don't get me wrong, but at the moment this looks more like a > > > parallel community to me. > > > > It is. ?Distributions have always had parallel development > > communities than their upstreams. > > Yes. And as far as translation is concerned this > uncoordinated "parallel development" always led to totally > inconsistent GUIs and usability disasters as far as my > experience with German distro versions goes. > > KDE translation is mostly a very clear structured and well > documented process -- see all the material of stats, mailing > lists, web sites, coordinators etc. for the individual teams on > the l10n server. It shouldn't be too difficult for the > respective (K)Ubuntu teams to coordinate their work with KDE > people instead of reinventing the wheel with every new version > for no good reason. And I think Ubuntu should "officially > encourage" this (just in case this is not happening already). > > Kind regards, > > Thomas > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:29:14 +0200 > From: Jannick Kuhr > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <200605280129.14414.jakuhr-linux@gmx.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Am Samstag, 27. Mai 2006 20:00 schrieb Jonathan Riddell: > > > But, according to a member of the German translation team, some of the > > > team POs were changed in KUbuntu, and apparently without > > > notification. > > > > There was a problem with the German translation where I didn't upload > > kde-i18n-de for KDE 3.5.2 until recently. > > > > > I also note that KOffice files are not listed yet (although > > > OpenOffice.org files are) - is it intended to import them too? > > > > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/koffice/+translations > > The worst is yet to come.... Your german translation for KOffice is an > absolute desaster. Obviously you are using some kind of KOffice 1.4 > translation file for KOffice 1.5 with some changes from the Ubuntu > translators. Congratualtions. Probably you will release Kubuntu next week > without a working german translation. > > Kind regards, > > Jannick > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:51:13 +0200 > From: Jannick Kuhr > Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE > To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > Message-ID: <200605280151.13675.jakuhr-linux@gmx.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2006 01:29 schrieb Jannick Kuhr: > > The worst is yet to come.... Your german translation for KOffice is an > > absolute desaster. Obviously you are using some kind of KOffice 1.4 > > translation file for KOffice 1.5 with some changes from the Ubuntu > > translators. Congratualtions. Probably you will release Kubuntu next week > > without a working german translation. > > It seems to be the same for all languages... Spanish, Dutch, French... > > Just have a look at this page. It's the status for Krita: > > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/koffice/+pots/krita/ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > kde-i18n-doc mailing list > kde-i18n-doc@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc > > > End of kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 31 > ******************************************** > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Kde-i18n-eo mailing list Kde-i18n-eo@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-eo