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List:       kde-i18n-eo
Subject:    [Kde-i18n-eo] Fwd: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 31
From:       Martin Ponce <mjp_ttc () yahoo ! com>
Date:       2006-05-28 2:49:23
Message-ID: 20060528024923.33089.qmail () web31505 ! mail ! mud ! yahoo ! com
[Download RAW message or body]

Pardonu pri la ekster'topika mesagxo, sed mi trovas grave diskonigi tiu-chi.

--- kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org wrote:

> From: kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org
> Subject: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 31
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:51:43 +0200
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jonathan Riddell)
>    2. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jonathan Riddell)
>    3. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Yukiko Bando)
>    4. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Kevin Donnelly)
>    5. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Spiros Georgaras)
>    6. Release kipi (Tom Albers)
>    7. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Thomas Diehl)
>    8. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Thomas Diehl)
>    9. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jannick Kuhr)
>   10. Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE (Jannick Kuhr)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 19:00:07 +0100
> From: Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <20060527180007.GZ15510@muse.19inch.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> I wasn't subscribed to the list so I'll answer all points so far in 1
> e-mail.
> 
> > When will Rosetta be open source?
> 
> When Mark says so, probably a few years yet.
> 
> > Are the translations done in launchpad.net commited into KDE SVN ?
> 
> No, that's why I recommend you to check for translations that would be
> useful to export and put back into KDE SVN.
> 
> > But, according to a member of the German translation team, some of the 
> > team POs were changed in KUbuntu, and apparently without 
> > notification.
> 
> There was a problem with the German translation where I didn't upload
> kde-i18n-de for KDE 3.5.2 until recently.
> 
> > How are the KDE teams supposed to know what changes are done in
> > Rosetta? I do not want to create an account and check the ubuntu files
> > for changes.
> 
> At the moment that is the only way.
> 
> > What about Rosetta changes the KDE teams do not want to get in?
> 
> Don't import them.
> 
> > As far as I know none of the german ubuntu translators did contact the
> > german KDE team before working on the german translations in unbuntu.
> 
> Might be worthwhile contacting them and pointing them to useful
> reference documentation.
> 
> > How do I explain a KDE translator that his work is already done from
> > someone else skipping the team processes?
> 
> I'm not sure what this is asking, the Ubuntu translation teams will
> have their own processes (being young teams some of them may be less
> mature than in KDE).  You can either ignore their work or take it back
> as best suits you.
> 
> > Don't get me wrong, but at the moment this looks more like a parallel 
> > community to me.
> 
> It is.  Distributions have always had parallel development communities
> than their upstreams.
> 
> > Another thing that I'm worried about is that they seem to be working
> > on old files.
> 
> Yes, the files are from the KDE 3.5.2 release.  Longer term there is
> an idea to import into Rosetta from KDE's SVN directly.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 19:27:52 +0100
> From: Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <20060527182752.GA15510@muse.19inch.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> Kevin Donnelly wrote:
> > The first is whether or not this gives an individual distro too much
> > leverage.  I'm not sure that web interfaces have been quite as
> > successful as I might have hoped three years ago, but is it a good
> > idea to have "the" KDE one farmed out to a specific distro?
> 
> I don't recomment Rosetta becomes an official KDE translation method,
> as Cornelius pointed out it's not Free Software for a start.  But some
> translators and teams may find it the best way to lower the barrier of
> entry.
> 
> > In fact, what is the relationship between the web material and the
> > KDE-svn material?  The latter has to be the gold standard, for the
> > simple reason that it is available for ALL distros to use.  If so, it
> > implies that the Rosetta stuff needs to be synced with KDE-svn.
> 
> Currently it includes the translations from the latest KDE i18n
> release that I upload, 3.5.2 in this case.  There is a plan to sync
> from KDE SVN at some point in the future.
> 
> > For instance, if the GNOME team has decided on a particular term for
> > something, and the KDE team has standardised on another one, does this
> > mean that that term will be changed in the KDE translations without
> > input from the KDE team?
> 
> If a the same term is already translated elsewhere in Rosetta it will
> offer that as a suggestion.  Whether or not a paticular Ubuntu
> translation team will change all the KDE terms to use the Gnome terms
> is up to the team but in general that would seem like a very bad idea.
> 
> > For instance, if I click the tuxpaint file, I am told that I am "not
> > an official translator for this file", even though I did the
> > translation.
> 
> You need to be a member of the relevant ubuntu translation team (which
> should be marked on the same page).
> 
> > This presumably means that I would be "reporting to" whoever the
> > Ubuntu language coordinator is, since they are the ones granting the
> > status.  Seems a bit odd.
> 
> That would be the case, but as with software development I'd expect
> the distriution team to respect the experience of the upstream team.
> 
> > On a practical issue, I think giving a huge list of files, with no
> > indication of where they belong, is a major useability no-no.
> 
> The Rosetta developers have started sorting the files by importance.
> 
> > I also note that KOffice files are not listed yet (although
> > OpenOffice.org files are) - is it intended to import them too?
> 
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/koffice/+translations
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 05:32:07 +0900
> From: Yukiko Bando <ybando@k6.dion.ne.jp>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200605280532.08003.ybando@k6.dion.ne.jp>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> 
> > > How do I explain a KDE translator that his work is already done from
> > > someone else skipping the team processes?
> >
> > I'm not sure what this is asking, the Ubuntu translation teams will
> > have their own processes (being young teams some of them may be less
> > mature than in KDE).  You can either ignore their work or take it back
> > as best suits you.
> 
> I'm not the one who asked the question, but what if the translator is a 
> Kubuntu user and working for the KDE team?  He or she should expect his 
> or her translation to be included in the next release but might see 
> someone else's instead.  Or is it officially announced that Kubuntu users 
> should not work for the KDE translation team?             
> 
> > > Don't get me wrong, but at the moment this looks more like a parallel
> > > community to me.
> >
> > It is.  Distributions have always had parallel development communities
> > than their upstreams.
> 
> When it comes to translation, I'd say it is a waste of human resources 
> since the original messages to translate are the same.  What if every 
> major distribution offers the same kind of tool?  I don't think it is an 
> efficient way that ten translators work for ten different distributions 
> without communicating with each other.  
> 
> I suppose we can get better results when all forces are combined.  When a 
> translator finds an error, I want him or her to report it upstream i.e. 
> the KDE team and it is corrected in KDE SVN, which is accessible to 
> everyone.
> 
> I'd like to suggest that you limit the use of Rosetta to distribution 
> specific applications and encourage your translators to join the KDE team 
> for KDE translation. 
> 
> > > Another thing that I'm worried about is that they seem to be working
> > > on old files.
> >
> > Yes, the files are from the KDE 3.5.2 release.  Longer term there is
> > an idea to import into Rosetta from KDE's SVN directly.
> 
> Will changes made in KDE SVN overwrite those in Rosetta then?  How do you 
> resolve conflicts?
> 
> Sorry if I sounded harsh, but, as a translator, I'd like the time and 
> effort I spent to be used by as many people as possible.
> 
> Regards,
> Yukiko
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 22:30:46 +0100
> From: Kevin Donnelly <kevin@dotmon.com>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200605272230.46827.kevin@dotmon.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Saturday 27 May 2006 19:27, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > I don't recomment Rosetta becomes an official KDE translation method,
> > as Cornelius pointed out it's not Free Software for a start. ?But some
> > translators and teams may find it the best way to lower the barrier of
> > entry.
> <large snip>
> 
> Thanks for the replies, Jonathan.  They make things a bit clearer.  I
> conclude 
> from these that there is no mileage in trying to move to Rosetta.  If there 
> is a sudden splurge of KDE translations via Rosetta, which I doubt, I would 
> have to reconsider, but until then my view is that Ubuntu can get its KDE 
> translations from KDE-svn like everyone else.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Pob hwyl / Best wishes
> 
> Kevin Donnelly
> 
> www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg
> www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg
> www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg
> www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:00:33 +0300
> From: Spiros Georgaras <sngeorgaras@otenet.gr>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: KDE i18n-doc <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
> Message-ID: <4478CC01.4090302@otenet.gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> O/H Yukiko Bando ??????:
> > ...
> > ...
> > 
> > I suppose we can get better results when all forces are combined.  When a 
> > translator finds an error, I want him or her to report it upstream i.e. 
> > the KDE team and it is corrected in KDE SVN, which is accessible to 
> > everyone.
> > 
> > I'd like to suggest that you limit the use of Rosetta to distribution 
> > specific applications and encourage your translators to join the KDE team 
> > for KDE translation. 
> > 
> 
> I couldn't agree more...
> Furthermore, I would like to suggest to import distribution specific
> applications in KDE SVN, provided they are KDE related, so that KDE l10n
> teams are responsible for translating them.
> 
> For example, SuSE menus and yast translations for the Greek language are
> handled by a team that is not related to the Greek KDE l10n team. So the
> two translations, KDE and SuSE specific, have a lot of differences - to
> put it simple: the same english words are translated differently in
> Greek. Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying we do it the right
> way and they don't. It's just different, and the overall "look and
> feel", is bad...
> 
> On the other hand, a tool like resetta permits a person with no previous
> experience in translating KDE apps,  to start translating without being
> able to use tools like "translation memory", and without being able to
> communicate with other translators, thus producing what I would think as
> "low quality" material. And when this material is submitted to the
> corresponding l10n team, imagine the effort needed to check and correct it.
> 
> The Greek KDE l10n team has spent the last 18 months or so, correcting
> these "errors" for apps that are within KDE SVN, and I must say it is a
> hard, slow and boring procedure, that nobody would want to go through
> again. Having high translation stats is one thing, and having high
> quality translated apps is another...
> 
> So please, consider disregarding rosetta altogether, and start using KDE
> SVN instead - I don't think KDE people would mind...
> 
> Kind regards
> S. Georgaras
> Greek l10n team coordinator
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> 
> iD8DBQFEeMv4KWglI0Ht5qcRAsxcAKDu2vSsPYNjs4VdIxIcyccMycN50gCg6h74
> zXVO8+9CNpALA6mhSD7ddLo=
> =jAOo
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 00:39:20 +0200
> From: Tom Albers <tomalbers@kde.nl>
> Subject: Release kipi
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200605280039.20632.tomalbers@kde.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello,
> 
> After two release candidates we will pack the final version for kipi-plugins 
> at the 13th of June. That's means translations have to be committed at the 
> 12th latest.
> 
> This week there will be one or two string changes in one of the kipi plugins,
> 
> you might want to keep an eye on that.
> 
> Hope you are all fine with this planning. 
> 
> Tom Albers
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:05:28 +0200
> From: Thomas Diehl <kontakt@dtp-diehl.de>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: KDE i18n-doc <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
> Message-ID: <200605280105.30292.kontakt@dtp-diehl.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-7"
> 
> Am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2006 00:00 schrieb Spiros Georgaras:
> 
> > On the other hand, a tool like resetta permits a person with
> > no previous experience in translating KDE apps, ?to start
> > translating without being able to use tools like "translation
> > memory", and without being able to communicate with other
> > translators, thus producing what I would think as "low
> > quality" material.
> 
> Judging from a posting of to the German list for Ubuntu 
> translators it's even worse: They have no idea of who is 
> changing what, find it difficult to test their translations in 
> the actual programs, don't see the source code, not mentioning 
> context info. So this posting suggests to drop Rosetta entirely 
> for Ubuntu translation and use gtranslator or emacs instead like 
> their Dutch team already did (as it says).
> 
> For those who read German:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/translators-de%40ubuntu-eu.org/msg00071.html
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:21:03 +0200
> From: Thomas Diehl <kontakt@dtp-diehl.de>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200605280121.04872.kontakt@dtp-diehl.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Am Samstag, 27. Mai 2006 20:00 schrieb Jonathan Riddell:
> 
> > > Don't get me wrong, but at the moment this looks more like a
> > > parallel community to me.
> >
> > It is. ?Distributions have always had parallel development
> > communities than their upstreams.
> 
> Yes. And as far as translation is concerned this 
> uncoordinated "parallel development" always led to totally 
> inconsistent GUIs and usability disasters as far as my 
> experience with German distro versions goes.
> 
> KDE translation is mostly a very clear structured and well 
> documented process -- see all the material of stats, mailing 
> lists, web sites, coordinators etc. for the individual teams on 
> the l10n server. It shouldn't be too difficult for the 
> respective (K)Ubuntu teams to coordinate their work with KDE 
> people instead of reinventing the wheel with every new version 
> for no good reason. And I think Ubuntu should "officially 
> encourage" this (just in case this is not happening already).
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:29:14 +0200
> From: Jannick Kuhr <jakuhr-linux@gmx.de>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200605280129.14414.jakuhr-linux@gmx.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Am Samstag, 27. Mai 2006 20:00 schrieb Jonathan Riddell:
> > > But, according to a member of the German translation team, some of the
> > > team POs were changed in KUbuntu, and apparently without
> > > notification.
> >
> > There was a problem with the German translation where I didn't upload
> > kde-i18n-de for KDE 3.5.2 until recently.
> >
> > > I also note that KOffice files are not listed yet (although
> > > OpenOffice.org files are) - is it intended to import them too?
> >
> > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/koffice/+translations
> 
> The worst is yet to come.... Your german translation for KOffice is an 
> absolute desaster. Obviously you are using some kind of KOffice 1.4 
> translation file for KOffice 1.5 with some changes from the Ubuntu 
> translators. Congratualtions. Probably you will release Kubuntu next week 
> without a working german translation.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jannick
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 01:51:13 +0200
> From: Jannick Kuhr <jakuhr-linux@gmx.de>
> Subject: Re: Rosetta for Kubuntu Dapper and KDE
> To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200605280151.13675.jakuhr-linux@gmx.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2006 01:29 schrieb Jannick Kuhr:
> > The worst is yet to come.... Your german translation for KOffice is an
> > absolute desaster. Obviously you are using some kind of KOffice 1.4
> > translation file for KOffice 1.5 with some changes from the Ubuntu
> > translators. Congratualtions. Probably you will release Kubuntu next week
> > without a working german translation.
> 
> It seems to be the same for all languages... Spanish, Dutch, French...
> 
> Just have a look at this page. It's the status for Krita:
> 
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/koffice/+pots/krita/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kde-i18n-doc mailing list
> kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc
> 
> 
> End of kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 31
> ********************************************
> 


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