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List: kde-i18n-doc
Subject: Re: Hebrew plural forms
From: Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron () gmail ! com>
Date: 2023-10-18 20:17:01
Message-ID: CACVjhxUn3oJ8DkntEXFzeU7O=8Nspmq7jtiVtX1PYnt4Ry4LoQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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I bet there is :)
The new plural form will require some string modifications in addition to
the header.
The current formula is as follows:
[1 - 1] %d house
[2 - !1] %d houses
The new formula is a bit more complex:
[1 - 1] %d house
[2 - 2] %d/two houses
[3 - X%10 == 0 when X is larger than 10] %d house
[4 - !1/!2] %d houses (matches the second form in the current formula)
So one option would be just breaking all the plural strings, the second
would be copying the 2nd form to the 3rd and 4th (won't break the string
but I'll need to fix it manually).
I can try and think of a way to handle this completely automatically but I
don't think it's worth the trouble.
So merely changing the form is not enough.
Thanks :)
Yaron Shahrabani
<DevOps - Hebrew translator>
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08 PM Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org> wrote:
> El dissabte, 14 d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:37:21 (CEST), Yaron Shahrabani
> va
> escriure:
> > I'm really hoping we can find a way to pull this off, it'll require human
> > resources beyond our reach.
> >
> > I can try and think about a way to do this automatically but I'm afraid
> it
> > won't be perfect.
>
> Do what automatically?
>
> Change the plural definition for all files?
>
> We have a script to do that.
>
> Cheers,
> Albert
>
> > Are there any examples of other languages that switched plural forms in
> KDE
> > along their history?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Yaron Shahrabani
> >
> > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 10:44 AM Johnny Jazeix <jazeix@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Le mar. 10 oct. 2023 Ã 09:38, Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron@gmail.com> a
> > >
> > > écrit :
> > > > So what about my first question, it only applies to new submissions?
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > It is for all the files or none. We cannot change the plural forms for
> > > only some files.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Johnny
> > >
> > > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2023, 01:35 Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org> wrote:
> > > >> El divendres, 6 d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:33:21 (CEST), Yaron
> > >
> > > Shahrabani va
> > >
> > > >> escriure:
> > > >> > Hey, if it's only relevant for new submissions that's fine,
> applying
> > >
> > > that
> > >
> > > >> > to all current files will be very cumbersome.
> > > >> > Is there a way to accept both?
> > > >>
> > > >> All KDE files for a given language must have the same plural
> > > >> definition.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >>
> > > >> Albert
> > > >>
> > > >> > Yaron Shahrabani
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 11:17 PM Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > El dijous, 5 d'octubre de 2023, a les 20:27:44 (CEST), Yaron
> > >
> > > Shahrabani va
> > >
> > > >> > > escriure:
> > > >> > > > Over the last couple of days I ran into a problem where the
> > >
> > > gettext
> > >
> > > >> > > > files
> > > >> > > > I've submitted caused all sorts of issues with Scripty.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > KDE is still using the old plural form for Hebrew (2 cases):
> > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=2; plural=n != 1;\n"
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Several years ago this formula was changed to reflect some
> rare
> > >
> > > cases in
> > >
> > > >> > > > Hebrew.
> > > >> > > > The new official formula is:
> > >
> > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=(n == 1) ? 0 : ((n == 2) ?
> 1 :
> > > ((n >
> > >
> > > >> > > > 10
> > > >> > > > && n % 10 == 0) ? 2 : 3));\n"
> > >
> > > >> > > > This is documented here:
> > >
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/cldr-aux/charts/22/supplemental/language_plura
> > >
> > > >> > > l_>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > rules.html
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > I've been using this formula for several years now.
> > > >> > > > Some other projects implementing it:
> > > >> > > > Weblate, Transifex, Crowding, Poedit and many others.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Since the actual cases for using this formula are rare (time
> > >
> > > related
> > >
> > > >> > > terms
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > - hours, days, months, years, times) it's not always
> necessary to
> > >
> > > use it
> > >
> > > >> > > so
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > supporting the older formula in addition to the new one is
> > >
> > > definitely a
> > >
> > > >> > > > good option for now.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > We can change to the new formula, but that means invalidating
> all
> > >
> > > plurals
> > >
> > > >> > > that
> > > >> > > use the nplurals=2 formula, is that ok for you?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Cheers,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Albert
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > Thank you,
> > > >> > > > Yaron Shahrabani
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
>
>
>
>
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I bet \
there is :)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The \
new plural form will require some string modifications in addition to the \
header.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The current formula is as follows:</div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[1 - 1] %d \
house</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[2 - !1] \
%d houses</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The new formula is a bit more \
complex:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[1 - \
1] %d house</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[2 \
- 2] %d/two houses</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[3 - X%10 == 0 when X is larger than 10] %d \
house</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[4 - \
!1/!2] %d houses (matches the second form in the current formula)<br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">So one option would be \
just breaking all the plural strings, the second would be copying the 2nd form to the \
3rd and 4th (won't break the string but I'll need to fix it \
manually).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I \
can try and think of a way to handle this completely automatically but I don't \
think it's worth the trouble.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">So merely changing the form is not \
enough.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Thanks \
:)<br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" \
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div \
dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:large"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><font \
color="#990000">Yaron</font></span><font color="#330000"><span \
style="font-family:georgia,serif"> <font size="4"><span style="font-family:times new \
roman,serif">Shahrabani</span></font></span></font></span><blockquote style="margin:0 \
0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><font color="#666666"><span \
style="font-size:x-small"><font color="#FF0000"><</font></span><font \
size="2"><span style="font-family:monospace">DevOps</span> - <span \
style="font-family:garamond,serif">Hebrew translator</span></font><span \
style="font-size:x-small"><font \
color="#FF0000">></font></span></font></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at \
11:08 PM Albert Astals Cid <<a href="mailto:aacid@kde.org">aacid@kde.org</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">El dissabte, 14 \
d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:37:21 (CEST), Yaron Shahrabani va <br> escriure:<br>
> I'm really hoping we can find a way to pull this off, it'll require \
human<br> > resources beyond our reach.<br>
> <br>
> I can try and think about a way to do this automatically but I'm afraid \
it<br> > won't be perfect.<br>
<br>
Do what automatically?<br>
<br>
Change the plural definition for all files?<br>
<br>
We have a script to do that.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Albert<br>
<br>
> Are there any examples of other languages that switched plural forms in KDE<br>
> along their history?<br>
> <br>
> Thanks.<br>
> Yaron Shahrabani<br>
> <br>
> <DevOps - Hebrew translator><br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 10:44 AM Johnny Jazeix <<a \
href="mailto:jazeix@gmail.com" target="_blank">jazeix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> \
> > Le mar. 10 oct. 2023 Ã 09:38, Yaron Shahrabani <<a \
href="mailto:sh.yaron@gmail.com" target="_blank">sh.yaron@gmail.com</a>> a<br> \
> > <br> > > écrit :<br>
> > > So what about my first question, it only applies to new \
submissions?<br> > > <br>
> > Hi,<br>
> > It is for all the files or none. We cannot change the plural forms for<br>
> > only some files.<br>
> > <br>
> > Cheers<br>
> > Johnny<br>
> > <br>
> > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2023, 01:35 Albert Astals Cid <<a \
href="mailto:aacid@kde.org" target="_blank">aacid@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br> > \
> >> El divendres, 6 d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:33:21 (CEST), Yaron<br> \
> > <br> > > Shahrabani va<br>
> > <br>
> > >> escriure:<br>
> > >> > Hey, if it's only relevant for new submissions that's \
fine, applying<br> > > <br>
> > that<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > to all current files will be very cumbersome.<br>
> > >> > Is there a way to accept both?<br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> All KDE files for a given language must have the same plural<br>
> > >> definition.<br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> Cheers,<br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> Albert<br>
> > >> <br>
> > >> > Yaron Shahrabani<br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > <DevOps - Hebrew translator><br>
> > >> > <br>
> > >> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 11:17 PM Albert Astals Cid <<a \
href="mailto:aacid@kde.org" target="_blank">aacid@kde.org</a>><br> > > <br>
> > wrote:<br>
> > >> > > El dijous, 5 d'octubre de 2023, a les 20:27:44 (CEST), \
Yaron<br> > > <br>
> > Shahrabani va<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > escriure:<br>
> > >> > > > Over the last couple of days I ran into a problem \
where the<br> > > <br>
> > gettext<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > > files<br>
> > >> > > > I've submitted caused all sorts of issues with \
Scripty.<br> > > >> > > > <br>
> > >> > > > KDE is still using the old plural form for Hebrew \
(2 cases):<br> > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=2; \
plural=n != 1;\n"<br> > > >> > > > <br>
> > >> > > > Several years ago this formula was changed to \
reflect some rare<br> > > <br>
> > cases in<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > > Hebrew.<br>
> > >> > > > The new official formula is:<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=(n == 1) ? 0 \
: ((n == 2) ? 1 :<br> > > ((n ><br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > > 10<br>
> > >> > > > && n % 10 == 0) ? 2 : 3));\n"<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > > This is documented here:<br>
> > <a href="http://www.unicode.org/cldr/cldr-aux/charts/22/supplemental/language_plura" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.unicode.org/cldr/cldr-aux/charts/22/supplemental/language_plura</a><br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > l_><br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > > rules.html<br>
> > >> > > > <br>
> > >> > > > I've been using this formula for several years \
now.<br> > > >> > > > Some other projects implementing it:<br>
> > >> > > > Weblate, Transifex, Crowding, Poedit and many \
others.<br> > > >> > > > <br>
> > >> > > > Since the actual cases for using this formula are \
rare (time<br> > > <br>
> > related<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > terms<br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > > - hours, days, months, years, times) it's not \
always necessary to<br> > > <br>
> > use it<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > so<br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > > supporting the older formula in addition to the new \
one is<br> > > <br>
> > definitely a<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > > good option for now.<br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > We can change to the new formula, but that means \
invalidating all<br> > > <br>
> > plurals<br>
> > <br>
> > >> > > that<br>
> > >> > > use the nplurals=2 formula, is that ok for you?<br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > Cheers,<br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > Albert<br>
> > >> > > <br>
> > >> > > > Thank you,<br>
> > >> > > > Yaron Shahrabani<br>
> > >> > > > <br>
> > >> > > > <DevOps - Hebrew translator><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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