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List: kde-i18n-doc
Subject: Re: MT based workflow
From: Mincho Kondarev <mkondarev () yahoo ! de>
Date: 2023-05-18 14:19:44
Message-ID: 21576828.433304.1684419584163 () mail ! yahoo ! com
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I don't fully understand the issue with copyright of translated models, but the \
output of MT is not 100 % suitable and correct. The MT are free to be used in certain \
conditions but the API for integration in apps is paid. Mincho
Am Mittwoch, Mai 17, 2023, 11:24 PM schrieb kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: MT based workflow (Frederik Schwarzer)
2. AW: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 242, Issue 4 (Mincho Kondarev)
3. Re: MT based workflow (Luigi Toscano)
4. Re: MT based workflow (Albert Astals Cid)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 14:12:48 +0000
From: Frederik Schwarzer <schwarzer@kde.org>
To: KDE i18n-doc <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
Subject: Re: MT based workflow
Message-ID: <5932310.lOV4Wx5bFT@swift>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:51:28 PM CEST Oliver Kellogg wrote:
Hi,
> I had been exploring how to integrate https://translate.google.com into my
> PO translation workflow and had found this:
> https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po
Apart from the feasability I would like to see the legal situation discussed.
I guess we can safely assume at this point that the language model vendors do not \
care about copyright when training their models. But do we already know what they \
think about using the result of their models?
Cheers,
Frederik
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 20:12:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: Mincho Kondarev <mkondarev@yahoo.de>
To: <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
Subject: AW: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 242, Issue 4
Message-ID: <2032669659.5766334.1684354321490@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi, Oliver,
I use MT (google and deepl). I agree that the MT spares a lot of writing but it \
still need a very careful checking and corrections. I‘ve written small bash \
scripts and a program in c++ that creates a translated po file from template and \
dictionary file in plain text format and then use the computer created po file as \
synchronisation source in Lokalize. This process is relativ slow and error prone and \
is suitable for large po file. I am not a developer and the code is not very matured. \
On the other side I‘m not aware of open source and free po editor which \
incorporates the automatic MT. Cheers
Mincho
Am Mittwoch, Mai 17, 2023, 1:00 PM schrieb kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org:
Send kde-i18n-doc mailing list submissions to
kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of kde-i18n-doc digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. MT based workflow (Oliver Kellogg)
2. Re: Translation building instructions (Albert Astals Cid)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 21:51:28 +0200
From: Oliver Kellogg <olivermkellogg@gmail.com>
To: kde-i18n-doc@kde.org
Subject: MT based workflow
Message-ID:
<CANZbxGkCSGGjxrRLECPhZeKG=94uxiNwUuaqT4y_zXU8Ag-Y0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello,
I had been exploring how to integrate https://translate.google.com into my
PO translation workflow and had found this:
https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po
It does work, albeit with a few idiosyncrasies - it requires specific
postprocessing
because the generated format is not directly PO compatible. For example,
the line breaks between msgid/msgstr pairs are lost and need to be
restored. Also, it reformats the msgid strings so I made a special merge
tool which restores the original msgid's.
For details see http://okellogg.de/mt-using-translate_po.html
Of course, the msgstr content does require proofreading/corrections.
Nevertheless, it is a huge saving compared with translating from scratch.
Is anybody using MT (machine translation) in their translation workflow?
If so, what tools do you use?
- Oliver
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 00:14:27 +0200
From: Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org>
To: "kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
Subject: Re: Translation building instructions
Message-ID: <3481186.exTU7c25Sc@xps15>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
El dissabte, 13 de maig de 2023, a les 23:56:47 (CEST), Enol P. va escriure:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Long time ago I made an script to build ast locale translations but I've
> lost it, and I forgot all commands to execute. However, I couldn't find any
> information about this online.
> I appreciate if someone can send me all necessary instructions to build
> translations.
The "canonical" way to do this is
* Be in the dir that contains your language folder, for this example ca
* ~/path/to/l10n-scripty/autogen.sh ca
* cd ca
* cmake .
* make
* make install
If you want to ovewrite your distro translations (be careful)
-DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr
to the cmake call and you will need su/sudo for the make install part.
Cheers,
Albert
------------------------------
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 22:46:32 +0200
From: Luigi Toscano <luigi.toscano@tiscali.it>
To: KDE i18n-doc <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
Subject: Re: MT based workflow
Message-ID: <dc52f5a6-023b-4e8c-167c-583bc85147f5@tiscali.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Frederik Schwarzer ha scritto:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:51:28 PM CEST Oliver Kellogg wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > I had been exploring how to integrate https://translate.google.com into my
> > PO translation workflow and had found this:
> > https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po
>
> Apart from the feasability I would like to see the legal situation discussed.
>
> I guess we can safely assume at this point that the language model vendors do not \
> care about copyright when training their models. But do we already know what they \
> think about using the result of their models?
Exactly, this is THE question. Do those services allow the user to freely
relicense their output, and to use it for any purpose?
If not, we need to remove all the translations where those tools were used.
--
Luigi
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 23:23:31 +0200
From: Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org>
To: KDE i18n-doc <kde-i18n-doc@kde.org>
Subject: Re: MT based workflow
Message-ID: <31781726.zt2U7KV3os@xps15>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
El dimecres, 17 de maig de 2023, a les 16:12:48 (CEST), Frederik Schwarzer va
escriure:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:51:28 PM CEST Oliver Kellogg wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > I had been exploring how to integrate https://translate.google.com into my
> > PO translation workflow and had found this:
> > https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po
>
> Apart from the feasability I would like to see the legal situation
> discussed.
>
> I guess we can safely assume at this point that the language model vendors
> do not care about copyright when training their models. But do we already
> know what they think about using the result of their models?
Things like https://libretranslate.com/ that is based on
https://github.com/argosopentech/argos-translate
should be copyright neutral given they have been trained on data that "has no
copyright" (If i'm not mistaken).
Cheers,
Albert
>
> Cheers,
> Frederik
------------------------------
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I don't fully understand the issue with copyright of translated models, but the \
output of MT is not 100 % suitable and correct. The MT are free to be used in certain \
conditions but the API for integration in apps \
is paid. <div><br></div><div>Mincho<br><br><p class="yahoo-quoted-begin" \
style="font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">Am \
Mittwoch, Mai 17, 2023, 11:24 PM schrieb kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org:</p><blockquote \
class="iosymail"><div dir="ltr">Send kde-i18n-doc mailing list submissions \
to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a \
ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide \
Web, visit<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc" \
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dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div \
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dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list \
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href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it \
is more specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of kde-i18n-doc \
digest..."<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1. \
Re: MT based workflow (Frederik Schwarzer)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2. AW: \
kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 242, Issue 4 (Mincho Kondarev)<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"> 3. Re: MT based workflow (Luigi Toscano)<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"> 4. Re: MT based workflow (Albert Astals Cid)<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 17 \
May 2023 14:12:48 +0000<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Frederik Schwarzer <<a \
ymailto="mailto:schwarzer@kde.org" \
href="mailto:schwarzer@kde.org">schwarzer@kde.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: \
KDE i18n-doc <<a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Subject: Re: MT based workflow<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a \
ymailto="mailto:5932310.lOV4Wx5bFT@swift" \
href="mailto:5932310.lOV4Wx5bFT@swift">5932310.lOV4Wx5bFT@swift</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:51:28 PM CEST Oliver \
Kellogg wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Hi,<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I had been exploring how to integrate <a \
href="https://translate.google.com" target="_blank">https://translate.google.com</a> \
into my<br></div><div dir="ltr">> PO translation workflow and had found \
this:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Apart from the feasability I would like to see the \
legal situation discussed.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I guess \
we can safely assume at this point that the language model vendors do not care about \
copyright when training their models. But do we already know what they think about \
using the result of their models?<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Cheers,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Frederik<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 17 \
May 2023 20:12:01 +0000 (UTC)<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Mincho Kondarev <<a \
ymailto="mailto:mkondarev@yahoo.de" \
href="mailto:mkondarev@yahoo.de">mkondarev@yahoo.de</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">To: <<a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Subject: AW: kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 242, Issue 4<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a \
ymailto="mailto:2032669659.5766334.1684354321490@mail.yahoo.com" \
href="mailto:2032669659.5766334.1684354321490@mail.yahoo.com">2032669659.5766334.1684354321490@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Hi, \
Oliver, <br></div><div dir="ltr">I use MT (google and deepl). I agree \
that the MT spares a lot of writing but it still need a very careful \
checking and corrections. I‘ve written small \
bash scripts and a program in c++ that creates a translated po file from \
template and dictionary file in plain text format and then use the computer created \
po file as synchronisation source in Lokalize. This process is relativ slow and \
error prone and is suitable for large po file. I am not a developer and the code is \
not very matured. On the other side I‘m not aware of open \
source and free po editor which incorporates the automatic MT. <br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Cheers <br></div><div dir="ltr">Mincho<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Am Mittwoch, Mai 17, 2023, 1:00 PM schrieb \
kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Send \
kde-i18n-doc mailing list submissions to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> \
<a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide \
Web, visit<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-doc</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"> <a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc-request@kde.org</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list \
at<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a \
ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc-owner@kde.org</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it \
is more specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of kde-i18n-doc \
digest..."<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1. \
MT based workflow (Oliver Kellogg)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2. Re: Translation \
building instructions (Albert Astals Cid)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Tue, 16 \
May 2023 21:51:28 +0200<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Oliver Kellogg <<a \
ymailto="mailto:olivermkellogg@gmail.com" \
href="mailto:olivermkellogg@gmail.com">olivermkellogg@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">To: <a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Subject: MT based workflow<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> \
<CANZbxGkCSGGjxrRLECPhZeKG=94uxiNwUuaqT4y_zXU8Ag-Y0Q@mail.gmail.com><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Hello,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">I had been exploring how to integrate <a \
href="https://translate.google.com" target="_blank">https://translate.google.com</a> \
into my<br></div><div dir="ltr">PO translation workflow and had found \
this:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/zcribe/translate-po</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It does work, albeit with a few idiosyncrasies - \
it requires specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">postprocessing<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">because the generated format is not directly PO compatible. For \
example,<br></div><div dir="ltr">the line breaks between msgid/msgstr pairs are lost \
and need to be<br></div><div dir="ltr">restored. Also, it reformats the msgid strings \
so I made a special merge<br></div><div dir="ltr">tool which restores the original \
msgid's.<br></div><div dir="ltr">For details see <a \
href="http://okellogg.de/mt-using-translate_po.html" \
target="_blank">http://okellogg.de/mt-using-translate_po.html</a><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Of course, the msgstr content does require \
proofreading/corrections.<br></div><div dir="ltr">Nevertheless, it is a huge saving \
compared with translating from scratch.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Is anybody using MT (machine translation) in their translation \
workflow?<br></div><div dir="ltr">If so, what tools do you use?<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">- Oliver<br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- \
next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was \
scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a \
href="http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-i18n-doc/attachments/20230516/b01c85b1/attachment-0001.htm" \
target="_blank">http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-i18n-doc/attachments/20230516/b01c85b1/attachment-0001.htm</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 17 \
May 2023 00:14:27 +0200<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Albert Astals Cid <<a \
ymailto="mailto:aacid@kde.org" \
href="mailto:aacid@kde.org">aacid@kde.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: \
"kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" <<a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Subject: Re: Translation building instructions<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:3481186.exTU7c25Sc@xps15" \
href="mailto:3481186.exTU7c25Sc@xps15">3481186.exTU7c25Sc@xps15</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">El dissabte, 13 de maig de 2023, a les 23:56:47 \
(CEST), Enol P. va escriure:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Hi everyone,<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Long time ago I made an script to \
build ast locale translations but I've<br></div><div dir="ltr">> lost it, and I \
forgot all commands to execute. However, I couldn't find any<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">> information about this online. <br></div><div dir="ltr">> I \
appreciate if someone can send me all necessary instructions to build<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">> translations.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The \
"canonical" way to do this is<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">* Be \
in the dir that contains your language folder, for this example ca<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">* ~/path/to/l10n-scripty/autogen.sh ca<br></div><div dir="ltr">* cd \
ca<br></div><div dir="ltr">* cmake .<br></div><div dir="ltr">* make <br></div><div \
dir="ltr">* make install<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If you want \
to ovewrite your distro translations (be careful) <br></div><div \
dir="ltr">-DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr<br></div><div dir="ltr">to the cmake call and \
you will need su/sudo for the make install part.<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cheers,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> \
Albert<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div \
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dir="ltr">End of kde-i18n-doc Digest, Vol 242, Issue 4<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">********************************************<br></div><div \
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dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 3<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 17 \
May 2023 22:46:32 +0200<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Luigi Toscano <<a \
ymailto="mailto:luigi.toscano@tiscali.it" \
href="mailto:luigi.toscano@tiscali.it">luigi.toscano@tiscali.it</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">To: KDE i18n-doc <<a ymailto="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org" \
href="mailto:kde-i18n-doc@kde.org">kde-i18n-doc@kde.org</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Subject: Re: MT based workflow<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a \
ymailto="mailto:dc52f5a6-023b-4e8c-167c-583bc85147f5@tiscali.it" \
href="mailto:dc52f5a6-023b-4e8c-167c-583bc85147f5@tiscali.it">dc52f5a6-023b-4e8c-167c-583bc85147f5@tiscali.it</a>><br></div><div \
dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Frederik Schwarzer ha scritto:<br></div><div \
dir="ltr">> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 9:51:28 PM CEST Oliver Kellogg \
wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Hi,<br></div><div \
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