[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: kde-i18n-doc
Subject: Re: [Kmymoney-devel] Questions about KMyMoney
From: Marek Laane <bald () smail ! ee>
Date: 2012-04-19 16:40:40
Message-ID: CAC0LJT--tzhKDLuzxVxdeCaLK+yuq4OS_AXjBr8KwV1zzs8BTw () mail ! gmail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
2012/4/19 Jack <ostroffjh@sbcglobal.net>
> On 2012.04.19 09:20, Marek Laane wrote:
>
>> 2012/4/19 Thomas Baumgart <thb@net-bembel.de>
>>
>> > On Wednesday 18 April 2012 19:02:03 Marek Laane wrote:
>> > > > 2: There was a bunch of strings "shares set to value in split of
>> > > >
>> > > >>> transaction" or "value set to shares in split of transaction" and
>> so
>> > > >>> on. What does that exactly mean? What is set to what? Share isn't
>> > > >>> here like stock but rather like a part, is it?
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> It looks like these are all within the consistency check. There
>> are
>> > > >>> comments in the code referring to currency, so this may refer to
>> > > >>> cases
>> > > >>> where there is a currency conversion, and the two values should be
>> > > >>> the same if they are in the same currency. I know that doesn't
>> > > >>> really help with the definition - but I think the "value" is the
>> > > >>> value of that split of the transaction, and "shares" is either
>> > > >>> really a number of shares of an investment, or else just the value
>> > > >>> on the other side of the currency conversion. I would have to
>> > > >>> understand the code better to be sure.>>
>> > > >> So you think "shares" are real shares as stock? Not shares as part
>> of
>> > > >> something? It was my first reaction, too, but the syntax made me
>> > > >> doubt...>
>> >
>> > > > I am not completely certain, but it is part of an error message
>> during
>> > > > the consistency check, so it would still lead the user to look to
>> the
>> > > > correct transaction for the problem.
>> > >
>> > > OK, let's wait to step forward somebody with deep knowledge :-)
>> >
>> > Sounds like you're calling me ;)
>> >
>> > Since we support multi-currency we have two numbers for each split in a
>> > transaction: the number of 'shares' and it's value. They are related
>> such:
>> >
>> > value = price * shares
>> >
>>
>>> The number of shares is always kept in the currency of the account this
>>> split references whereas the value is always kept in the currency assigned
>>> to the transaction. So in case the currency for account and transaction are
>>> identical, 'value' and 'share' are identical since the price is 1.
>>>
>> >
>>
>>> The messages you translate are caused by a consistency check. The
>>> comment says:
>>>
>> >
>> > // make sure, that shares and value have the same number if they
>> > // represent the same currency.
>> >
>>
>>> In case the sum of all values of all splits in a transaction is zero
>>> (the transaction is balanced) the amount of shares is adjusted, if it is
>>> not, the value is adjusted.
>>>
>> >
>>
>>> A second instance of those messages pop up where they deal with
>>> scheduled transactions.
>>>
>> >
>>
>>> They should not pop up nowadays anymore since the application does not
>>> create 'invalid' splits anymore. They could still arise when you import
>>> from other sources though.
>>>
>> >
>>
>>> I hope that gives enough information for you to continue your very
>>> welcome and appreciated work.
>>>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> Well, great thanks for thorough explanation! That was I suspected but was
>> not sure at all I do understand correctly. I just want to ask once more: so
>> "shares" here are shares as stock you can trade, not shares as part of
>> something? Because in Estonian there isn't possible to use same word for
>> both of them
>>
>
> Given Thomas' explanation, they are not shares of stock, but not really
> "part" of anything. It is just a term used in KMM to describe how it
> handles multiple currencies. The "value" of a split of a transaction is
> the amount in the currency of the transaction. The "shares" is the same
> amount, but in the currency of the account of the transaction. This term
> was probably chosen because the "value = price * shares" is the same
> equation used for shares of stock. In this case the "price" is the
> currency conversion rate. It is using a word to describe something that
> does not really have a single word to describe it. It exists only because
> of the need to deal with multiple currencies.
>
> One thing this tells me I should expand the section in the manual on
> currency conversion to mention that transactions in an account that uses a
> different currency from the base currency are describe with the terms share
> and value (as Thomas explained above). I think the main problem here is
> that the user will never see these terms, unless the consistency check
> finds a problem. Also, as Thomas said, that should never happen now except
> possibly if there is a problem with some imported data.
>
> Finally, at least from my perspective, this means that you actually have
> some flexibility in the translation. It doesn't really matter whether you
> use the word for shares of stock or parts of a thing - as long as the user
> can tell it refers to problems with the internal data of a transaction. (I
> think even an English speaking user might be confused about seeing the term
> "share" in this context, but without using a much longer string for the
> message, I don't see any better way.)
>
> Jack
OK, thank you both for explanation! I try to find best way to say it in
Estonian though it'd be difficult task...
Marek Laane,
Estonian translator
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/4/19 Jack <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:ostroffjh@sbcglobal.net">ostroffjh@sbcglobal.net</a>></span><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On 2012.04.19 09:20, \
Marek Laane wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> 2012/4/19 Thomas Baumgart <<a \
href="mailto:thb@net-bembel.de" target="_blank">thb@net-bembel.de</a>><br> <br>
> On Wednesday 18 April 2012 19:02:03 Marek Laane wrote:<br>
> > > 2: There was a bunch of strings "shares set to value in split \
of<br> > > ><br>
> > >>> transaction" or "value set to shares in split of \
transaction" and so<br> > > >>> on. What does that exactly mean? \
What is set to what? Share isn't<br> > > >>> here like stock but \
rather like a part, is it?<br> > > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> It looks like these are all within the consistency check. \
There are<br> > > >>> comments in the code referring to currency, so \
this may refer to<br> > > >>> cases<br>
> > >>> where there is a currency conversion, and the two values \
should be<br> > > >>> the same if they are in the same currency. I \
know that doesn't<br> > > >>> really help with the definition - \
but I think the "value" is the<br> > > >>> value of that \
split of the transaction, and "shares" is either<br> > > >>> \
really a number of shares of an investment, or else just the value<br> > > \
>>> on the other side of the currency conversion. I would have to<br> > \
> >>> understand the code better to be sure.>><br> > > \
>> So you think "shares" are real shares as stock? Not shares as part \
of<br> > > >> something? It was my first reaction, too, but the syntax \
made me<br> > > >> doubt...><br>
><br>
> > > I am not completely certain, but it is part of an error message \
during<br> > > > the consistency check, so it would still lead the user to \
look to the<br> > > > correct transaction for the problem.<br>
> ><br>
> > OK, let's wait to step forward somebody with deep knowledge :-)<br>
><br>
> Sounds like you're calling me ;)<br>
><br>
> Since we support multi-currency we have two numbers for each split in a<br>
> transaction: the number of 'shares' and it's value. They are related \
such:<br> ><br>
> value = price * shares<br>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> The number of shares is always kept in the currency of the \
account this split references whereas the value is always kept in the currency \
assigned to the transaction. So in case the currency for account and transaction are \
identical, 'value' and 'share' are identical since the price is \
1.<br>
</blockquote>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> The messages you translate are caused by a consistency \
check. The comment says:<br> </blockquote>
><br>
> // make sure, that shares and value have the same number if they<br>
> // represent the same currency.<br>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> In case the sum of all values of all splits in a transaction \
is zero (the transaction is balanced) the amount of shares is adjusted, if it is not, \
the value is adjusted.<br> </blockquote>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> A second instance of those messages pop up where they deal \
with scheduled transactions.<br> </blockquote>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> They should not pop up nowadays anymore since the \
application does not create 'invalid' splits anymore. They could still arise \
when you import from other sources though.<br> </blockquote>
><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> I hope that gives enough information for you to continue \
your very welcome and appreciated work.<br> </blockquote>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
Well, great thanks for thorough explanation! That was I suspected but was not sure at \
all I do understand correctly. I just want to ask once more: so "shares" \
here are shares as stock you can trade, not shares as part of something? Because in \
Estonian there isn't possible to use same word for both of them<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
Given Thomas' explanation, they are not shares of stock, but not really \
"part" of anything. It is just a term used in KMM to describe how it \
handles multiple currencies. The "value" of a split of a transaction is \
the amount in the currency of the transaction. The "shares" is the same \
amount, but in the currency of the account of the transaction. This term was \
probably chosen because the "value = price * shares" is the same equation \
used for shares of stock. In this case the "price" is the currency \
conversion rate. It is using a word to describe something that does not really have \
a single word to describe it. It exists only because of the need to deal with \
multiple currencies.<br>
<br>
One thing this tells me I should expand the section in the manual on currency \
conversion to mention that transactions in an account that uses a different currency \
from the base currency are describe with the terms share and value (as Thomas \
explained above). I think the main problem here is that the user will never see \
these terms, unless the consistency check finds a problem. Also, as Thomas said, \
that should never happen now except possibly if there is a problem with some imported \
data.<br>
<br>
Finally, at least from my perspective, this means that you actually have some \
flexibility in the translation. It doesn't really matter whether you use the \
word for shares of stock or parts of a thing - as long as the user can tell it refers \
to problems with the internal data of a transaction. (I think even an English \
speaking user might be confused about seeing the term "share" in this \
context, but without using a much longer string for the message, I don't see any \
better way.)<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Jack</font></span></blockquote></div><div>OK, thank you both for explanation! I try \
to find best way to say it in Estonian though it'd be difficult \
task...</div><div><br></div><div>Marek Laane,</div><div>Estonian translator</div> \
<div><br></div>
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic