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List:       kde-i18n-doc
Subject:    Re: clarification of a string
From:       Chusslove Illich <caslav.ilic () gmx ! net>
Date:       2010-12-22 14:05:56
Message-ID: 201012221505.56699.caslav.ilic () gmx ! net
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>> [: Chusslove Illich :]
>> [...] it requires the translator to closely follow the *positional
>> context*, which means always keeping in sight messages above and below
>> the current one, and their source references in relation to one another.
>
> [: Federico Zenith :]
> I disagree. Translating in a straight line is not necessarily the best way
> to do this [...]

Following the positional context does not require translating in a straight
line. It requires only having messages around the message currently being
translated in plain sight, and understaing the meaning of message parts
(source references, extracted comments, etc.)

> Case 1: the translating group has decided that e.g. "override" will be
> translated in a certain way. In Lokalize, I would filter for "override"
> and translate all messages containing the word (and correct previous
> translations). This filters the message list and will lump together
> messages from different parts of the code. I know I do it often and it
> makes my work easier, and I don't think I am the only one.

I know for a fact that you are not the only one :) However, I do consider it
a slightly defective practice because it negates the positional context.

Instead, when I go around modifying and translating scattered messages with
some common theme, I do it quite similarly but with a twist: while the
filtering is such that I can jump from one to another message of interest,
it does not make all other messages invisible. That is, I will go from one
selected message to the next translating or modifying it, but always having
the surrounding non-selected messages in direct sight.

> Case 2: Positional context is no guarantee. [...]

That is right, but nothing is guarantee, and everything servers to improve
the odds.

Even a manual context can be inconclusive. Such a context:

  msgctxt "verb"
  msgid "Open File"
  msgstr ""

would be near useless to me, because if this were a button text I would use
a command-like translation, and if it were a dialog title, I would use a
noun-like formulation. Therefore, more useful to me would be seeing:

  #: foobar.cpp:12
  msgid "Open File"
  msgstr ""

  #: foobar.cpp:13
  msgid "This file looks like a binary, are you sure you want to open it?"
  msgstr ""

This would give away (also noting source references) that the first message
is most likely a message box title (it is less likely the confirmation
button, since normally that would be just "Open"; though I would check the
source file if at hand).

> We cannot expect translators to dig in the source code.

That is fair enough from the point of view of being realistic. But, the less
digging in the source code, the more the translation glitches (in short
messages). So, I would slightly modify and lengthen this to: we cannot
expect *all* translators to dig in the source code, but we should always
point out that the possibility exists, and encourage translators to try it
out.

(On a side note, while a translator may not look in the source code, a
reviewer, someone with more technical insight, might at a later time. That
is what I do.)

> If developers want good translations, they must invest some extra 10-20
> keystrokes (5 seconds?) to add a msgctxt every time the message is prone
> to misunderstanding. If in doubt, don't leave it out.

Unfortunatelly, programmers usually do not know when a message is prone to
misunderstanding. Worse yet, what I need to know about a message in my
language, may not be needed in another language (the "Open File" example).
Even cases that are easily formulated (like "never leave a single adjective
message without a context") are more often than not forgotten by
programmers.

So, we should make use of (or: point out the possibility to make use of)
whatever means available to improve the odds at understanding the context.

-- 
Chusslove Illich (Часлав Илић)

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