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List:       kde-i18n-doc
Subject:    Re: looking for a translation service for a gettext project
From:       Renato_Pavičić_-_Translator-shop <renato () translator-shop ! or
Date:       2006-05-26 13:34:46
Message-ID: 1510483646.20060526153446 () translator-shop ! org
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Hello Shannon,

Well, I know how THEY feel! I am freelance translator (from Croatia),
and I gotta admit that PO files have been giving me a lot of
"professional" trouble. But, there are two solutions:  

1. You CAN translate PO files with Trados - But, you need lines (text)
in "translated" lines! Take (ie) British-English PO, mark original
lines as Trados-protected, and translate as usual!

If you need specifics on procedure (it it rather complicated), I can
give you instructions.

I know translators look like "spoiled brats", but it is not their job
to know programming.
You can prepare the PO file, and send it to them as word doc file.

2. Deja Vu X

For almost a month now, I have been using DejaVu X (with borrowed
license), on a Windows. It's a pro translator tool, and the only one
that can import PO and POT files. (further mentioning - DV)  

General usage notes:
- I creates one large file, called "project", where all imported files are stored. \
You can work with original files without the risk of affecting already imported files \
                (in case you accidentally delete them).
- Separate TM (can be used with multiple projects) and Lexicon (this one is part of \
project alone - useful if you have some term that within one project is translated in \
one way, and in another way)

Firstly, on a plus side:
------------------------
- Usage of TM (translator-memory) database
- Import of other TM DB (not directly, but there is a workaround - first export from \
                old TM, then import into DV. I can give you specifics if needed)
- Export of TM DB (equally important!!!)
- Import of already translated file and "sending" it's content into TM
- Usage of spellchecker from MS Word
- Marvelous option for adding word/term pairs into TM!
- Excellent ability to put translation together out of semi-translated parts
- easy changing of word order in sentence (very important for me!)
- Filtering of lines - finished, empty, non-translated…
- When exporting, remembers original import path - if you imported kdebase folder, it \
                exports into: "D:\KDE\hr-hr\kdebase\modul.po".
- Supposedly you can update imported file (I guess when the original is changed), but \
I have no experience on this

Limitations are following:
(numerous, but don't give up!)
------------------------------
- Before import, you gotta put "#, Lang = hr", into header of original
PO to be translated (where "hr" stands for Croatian). DV needs to know
import language pair, and this extra line is only meaning for that.  

- During import it seems that DV wrongly interprets quotes over
multiple lines like: 
msgid ""
"this is the first row, "
"and this is the second row"

On export, they look like this:
msgstr ""
"this is the first row,
and this is the second row"

Consequently, PO header (with info on po file/translator) and is
treated as just another text line to be translated (no option for
preset, like in POedit), and this messes up translated file a bit. It
removes quotes from all of header, and all info in it is lost
(charmap, as most important)    
Gotta put all of them back by hand!

- When translating:
  - cannot add words into spellchecker (it uses speller from MS
Office, I guess it needs writing access, something that could be my
personal, PC related issue, dunno)
  - trouble with "\n" tags - they do not visualy or practicaly break
the row, so they remain inline with translated text
  - trouble with multiple lines when no "\n" tag present - you cannot
insert line break into translation

- When importing, DV does not recognize original "fuzzy" tags.

- Sometimes (rarely) it does not import properly: Some fuzzy lines are
empty, also some translated. (but you can copy-paste from translated
file)

- When exporting:
  - DV designates some lines (partial automatic translation plus few
new words) as fuzzy - cannot change, so gotta erase them by hand from
your translation
  - Because DV messes up quotes on import, guess what - it messes them
on export! Beside above mentioned problem, if you export partially
translated file, untranslated lines are later on (in POedit)
interpreted as non-existent! So, no use to export unfinished work.   
  - Multiple lines when no "\n" tag present - They appear as one-line,
gotta place line breaks and quotes by hand 

- Price: 400 euro for cheapest license


Conclusion:
-----------
Beside all of the problems, it is 10 times better that troublesome!
When I translate:
- I spend less time to translate
- I have TM DB

The problem with quotes is annoying, but tell any pro translator all
the good sides of this app, and he/she will have no problem to add
some quotes.

And, after all, you can again do that instead of them. It is no
problem at all. Translation is not lost, and it is already checked up
(if translator says so).

Just look for:
msgstr ""

and any (usualy all) screwed up line is below that one!

Then check for:
\n

as this may need adjustment as well.

Hope this helps. Would write more, but I'm kinda busy. Maybe over
weekend...


One more thing - Since I am using DV only for KDE (yes, because it
rules! and I will make a pact with the devil for this), and NOT
commercially, I had a thought to approach DV development team and ask
them to make free version of DV, solely for PO files, solely for
non-profit work, but with TM DB import-export (it's a MUST!!!)
If you find this idea interesting we can together try to approach them
in a prepared, well explained manner.
Maybe they ould like to become patronates? Like, "yes, we make money,
but we are human"....

-- 
Best regards,
 Renato

mailto:renato@translator-shop.org

www.translator-shop.org


Friday, May 26, 2006, 1:22:15 AM, you wrote:

> First of all, I'd like to apologize for my slightly off topic post.
> Please cc me in your reply, and I won't bother this list any more.

> Second of all, KDE rules! :)

INDEED!

> Lastly, I'm looking for a professional translation service to
> translate a very large application into 8 languages.  I have i18n'ized
> the application using gettext, but I'm having a hard time finding
> companies who can work with .po files natively.  Everyone wants to use
> Trados, which is painful because the transition from .po files to
> Trados isn't seamless.  Can anyone point me at a high quality
> translation service that can work with .po files directly?

> Thanks!
> -jj




-- 
Best regards,
 Renato

mailto:renato@translator-shop.org

www.translator-shop.org


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