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List: kde-frameworks-devel
Subject: Re: Review Request 123075: do not require X11 on Mac OS X
From: Martin_Gräßlin <mgraesslin () kde ! org>
Date: 2015-03-20 13:54:18
Message-ID: 20150320135418.3832.71460 () mimi ! kde ! org
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> On March 20, 2015, 8:07 a.m., Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > as in other similar requests: -2 from my side
>
> Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> To extend: I think the way is wrong. If it now builds on MacOS the required is \
> wrong. It should be an optional find_package properly ifdefed.
> Christoph Cullmann wrote:
> Actually, you don't want that it is optional as you really don't want that it ever \
> is found on MacOS. If you install an XQuartz for legacy apps, it will be found, and \
> you will have a completly mess as result ;=)
> Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> Christoph, that argument is wrong. The same would be the case with Windows and any \
> other platform which optionally offers X11 (this includes Linux!). CMake can handle \
> the situation quite well to disable an unwanted build dependency. If a user \
> installs XLib headers (which is not the same as just installing XQuartz) we should \
> expect the user to disable the cmake build option.
> Christoph Cullmann wrote:
> That means that nobody will get a senseful build on Mac, if he doesn't disable that \
> optional dependency. Thats the opposite of a normal optional dependency, that leads \
> to missing features if not found but not complete mess if found. I tried to compile \
> frameworks stuff on Mac, and IMHO, really, that makes it close to unusable, that \
> you need to tweak each cmake call just to have something usable, if you have too \
> much stuff installed. I never had to do that on Linux/Other Unices.
> Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > That means that nobody will get a senseful build on Mac
>
> What since when is XLib as a build dependency available by default on OS X?
>
> Christoph Cullmann wrote:
> Actually, if you work with Frameworks there, you will install something over \
> MacPorts or Homebrew, and yes, you will have XQuartz installed, to run some legacy \
> apps and there is really no user understandable way to install XQuartz without its \
> devel headers, the .dmg will just install everything, I was suprised myself that I \
> have X devel headers just by installing an X-Server. My first workaround was just \
> to deinstall XQuartz, later I started to tweak CMake options or do exactly the same \
> fixes as above. And yes, I think, per default, without any magic options, \
> frameworks should just build to a usable state. And I see 0 reason to ever have \
> even an optional "with x11" build of an frameworks application. But I might be \
> wrong. Therefore I don't vote here or say ship it, just wanted to state my concerns \
> ;=)
my concern is that we make our CMakeLists.txt way more complex (it's not the only \
framework which recently saw such a proposed change) and work around broken systems \
in our CMakeLists. That's something I do not want to see - if the downstream \
packaging sucks, it needs to be fixed there. We would tell the same to every Linux \
distribution.
I do not want to see such OS specific changes go in as X11 is not OS specific - all \
operating systems we support in KDE can provide X11 and on all OS there are \
alternative windowing systems. What I don't want to see is something like: if (NOT \
APPLE AND NOT WINDOWS AND NOT LINUX_ANDROID AND NOT LINUX_UBUNTU_PHONE AND NOT \
LINUX_SAILFISH AND NOT LINUX_WEBOS AND NOT ...
if we start with one platform, where do we end? Is adding the check for Apple OK and \
Windows not?
- Martin
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123075/#review77779
-----------------------------------------------------------
On March 19, 2015, 11:59 p.m., Harald Fernengel wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123075/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated March 19, 2015, 11:59 p.m.)
>
>
> Review request for KDE Frameworks and Michael Palimaka.
>
>
> Repository: kdesu
>
>
> Description
> -------
>
> do not require X11 on Mac OS X
>
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> CMakeLists.txt 9623483d6f11f9cdb7d7dc19decfd7cf5e86d079
>
> Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123075/diff/
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harald Fernengel
>
>
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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123075/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123075/</a>
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<br />
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <p style="margin-top: 0;">On March 20th, 2015, 8:07 a.m. CET, <b>Martin \
Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p> <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid \
#d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">as in other similar requests: -2 from my \
side</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On March 20th, 2015, 8:09 a.m. CET, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">To \
extend: I think the way is wrong. If it now builds on MacOS the required is wrong. It \
should be an optional find_package properly ifdefed.</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On March 20th, 2015, 1:37 p.m. CET, <b>Christoph Cullmann</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Actually, you don't want that it is optional as you really don't want that \
it ever is found on MacOS. If you install an XQuartz for legacy apps, it will be \
found, and you will have a completly mess as result ;=)</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On March 20th, 2015, 1:59 p.m. CET, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Christoph, that argument is wrong. The same would be the case with Windows \
and any other platform which optionally offers X11 (this includes Linux!). CMake can \
handle the situation quite well to disable an unwanted build dependency. If a user \
installs XLib headers (which is not the same as just installing XQuartz) we should \
expect the user to disable the cmake build option.</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On March 20th, 2015, 2:02 p.m. CET, <b>Christoph Cullmann</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">That \
means that nobody will get a senseful build on Mac, if he doesn't disable that \
optional dependency. Thats the opposite of a normal optional dependency, that leads \
to missing features if not found but not complete mess if found. I tried to compile \
frameworks stuff on Mac, and IMHO, really, that makes it close to unusable, that you \
need to tweak each cmake call just to have something usable, if you have too much \
stuff installed. I never had to do that on Linux/Other Unices.</p></pre> \
</blockquote>
<p>On March 20th, 2015, 2:05 p.m. CET, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><blockquote \
style="text-rendering: inherit;padding: 0 0 0 1em;border-left: 1px solid \
#bbb;white-space: normal;margin: 0 0 0 0.5em;line-height: inherit;"> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">That means that nobody will get a senseful build on Mac</p> </blockquote>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">What since when is XLib as a build dependency \
available by default on OS X?</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On March 20th, 2015, 2:08 p.m. CET, <b>Christoph Cullmann</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Actually, if you work with Frameworks there, you will install something \
over MacPorts or Homebrew, and yes, you will have XQuartz installed, to run some \
legacy apps and there is really no user understandable way to install XQuartz without \
its devel headers, the .dmg will just install everything, I was suprised myself that \
I have X devel headers just by installing an X-Server. My first workaround was just \
to deinstall XQuartz, later I started to tweak CMake options or do exactly the same \
fixes as above. And yes, I think, per default, without any magic options, frameworks \
should just build to a usable state. And I see 0 reason to ever have even an optional \
"with x11" build of an frameworks application. But I might be wrong. Therefore I \
don't vote here or say ship it, just wanted to state my concerns ;=)</p></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">my \
concern is that we make our CMakeLists.txt way more complex (it's not the only \
framework which recently saw such a proposed change) and work around broken systems \
in our CMakeLists. That's something I do not want to see - if the downstream \
packaging sucks, it needs to be fixed there. We would tell the same to every Linux \
distribution.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">I do not want to see such OS specific changes go in as \
X11 is not OS specific - all operating systems we support in KDE can provide X11 and \
on all OS there are alternative windowing systems. What I don't want to see is \
something like: if (NOT APPLE AND NOT WINDOWS AND NOT LINUX_ANDROID AND NOT \
LINUX_UBUNTU_PHONE AND NOT LINUX_SAILFISH AND NOT LINUX_WEBOS AND NOT ...</p> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">if we start with one platform, where do we end? Is adding the check for \
Apple OK and Windows not?</p></pre> <br />
<p>- Martin</p>
<br />
<p>On March 19th, 2015, 11:59 p.m. CET, Harald Fernengel wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="12" style="border: \
1px #888a85 solid; border-radius: 6px; -moz-border-radius: 6px; \
-webkit-border-radius: 6px;"> <tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for KDE Frameworks and Michael Palimaka.</div>
<div>By Harald Fernengel.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated March 19, 2015, 11:59 p.m.</i></p>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
kdesu
</div>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">do not require X11 on Mac OS X</pre> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>CMakeLists.txt <span style="color: \
grey">(9623483d6f11f9cdb7d7dc19decfd7cf5e86d079)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123075/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>
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